4 ms·

Obviously what is being "neutered" is important. I'll take a model refusing to answer how to commit a suicide and perhaps being overly polite and protective ove

Obviously what is being "neutered" is important. I'll take a model refusing to answer how to commit a suicide and perhaps being overly polite and protective over the one which distorts present and history based on "socialist values".

fullspectrumdev 3y ago
Personally I’ll take neither. Alignment and such is a fucking scam.
- qualifiedai 3y ago
  No, alignment should be done. Also, both base and aligned models should be released publicly.
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  Choice of data to use is alignment. If you train it on the internet, your LLM will spew SSO garbage, so we align it to be more useful.
- staunton 3y ago
  Alignment just means that the software does what you want. Of course, any term can be appropriated and abused by whoever can gain from doing so. I still think it's important to have a concrete idea what one means when one uses words. For example, you wouldn't say that "medicine is a fucking scam" to mean that the healthcare industry is broken.
A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago
No. The moment you put it upon yourself to decide what is too important to let fragile little minds handle, you have chosen yourself as their thought master. Once anyone chooses that role, they deem themselves more enlightened and therefore more capable than the poor, deluded masses trudging in dirt below from whence they came. I am ok with 'uncensored' LLM, but I am also ok with uncensored internet. The real harm is from people trying to protect me from me, apparently. Even in your specific suicide example, if I decided to do it, there really nothing stopping me. I see no value in that censorship. I only see harm.
- thinkingtoilet 3y ago
  "Once anyone chooses that role, they deem themselves more enlightened and therefore more capable than the poor, deluded masses trudging in dirt below from whence they came." Or they simply want to sell their models to enterprise clients who don't want to expose certain things to their employees during the work day. This reads a bit like those "I'm a lion" or "I'm the alpha wolf" type posts. Go ahead and try to sell a product that can generate hate speech, nudity, and violent content to enterprises.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago
    I appreciate the counter ( even if I do not appreciate the 'wolf' framing ), because that is a valid question. Still, if the concern is about business viability, why is the consumer facing LLM that is not tied to a specific brand not allowed to exist? Surely, the demos provided to enterprise client would not suffer from such violent content, abhorrent nudity and hateful speech? Why is internet flooded with images of LLMs giving clearly politically adjusted responses ( Biden/Trump being less recent, but clear example ) to Joe Schmoe? Is that a good look? Will that sell to enterprises better?
    - thinkingtoilet 3y ago
      Well, maybe drop phrases like "fragile little minds", "thought master", "poor, deluded masses trudging in dirt below from whence they came" when talking about enterprise software if you don't want the comparison. That's what this is, enterprise software. No need to imply others are mindless sheep being ultra sensitive when discussing enterprise software.
      - A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago
        My friend. Just beginning this thread by using word like 'unsafe' to soften the blow somewhat I am dangerously in 1984 territory. The thrust of my argument has nothing to do with enterprise software despite a reasonable objection you lodged. The words were intended to be noticed ( and reacted to ). And they were. There is a reason for this and goes something like this. I dislike commercial interests trumping sanity. Crazy. I know. edit: I also would like to note you did not address my actual point.
ipaddr 3y ago
Might be important if you are trying to find ways to prevent suicide. Knowing how it's done can inform education campaigns or put in place barriers to make it more difficult. When we choose one simple use-case and apply it to everything we lose out. Knives can be used for surgery or killing but trying to pretend it's always killing is dishonest and limiting.

fullspectrumdev 3y ago

Personally I’ll take neither. Alignment and such is a fucking scam.

qualifiedai 3y ago
No, alignment should be done. Also, both base and aligned models should be released publicly.
mensetmanusman 3y ago
Choice of data to use is alignment. If you train it on the internet, your LLM will spew SSO garbage, so we align it to be more useful.
staunton 3y ago
Alignment just means that the software does what you want. Of course, any term can be appropriated and abused by whoever can gain from doing so. I still think it's important to have a concrete idea what one means when one uses words. For example, you wouldn't say that "medicine is a fucking scam" to mean that the healthcare industry is broken.

A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago

No. The moment you put it upon yourself to decide what is too important to let fragile little minds handle, you have chosen yourself as their thought master. Once anyone chooses that role, they deem themselves more enlightened and therefore more capable than the poor, deluded masses trudging in dirt below from whence they came. I am ok with 'uncensored' LLM, but I am also ok with uncensored internet. The real harm is from people trying to protect me from me, apparently. Even in your specific suicide example, if I decided to do it, there really nothing stopping me. I see no value in that censorship. I only see harm.

thinkingtoilet 3y ago
"Once anyone chooses that role, they deem themselves more enlightened and therefore more capable than the poor, deluded masses trudging in dirt below from whence they came." Or they simply want to sell their models to enterprise clients who don't want to expose certain things to their employees during the work day. This reads a bit like those "I'm a lion" or "I'm the alpha wolf" type posts. Go ahead and try to sell a product that can generate hate speech, nudity, and violent content to enterprises.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago
  I appreciate the counter ( even if I do not appreciate the 'wolf' framing ), because that is a valid question. Still, if the concern is about business viability, why is the consumer facing LLM that is not tied to a specific brand not allowed to exist? Surely, the demos provided to enterprise client would not suffer from such violent content, abhorrent nudity and hateful speech? Why is internet flooded with images of LLMs giving clearly politically adjusted responses ( Biden/Trump being less recent, but clear example ) to Joe Schmoe? Is that a good look? Will that sell to enterprises better?
  - thinkingtoilet 3y ago
    Well, maybe drop phrases like "fragile little minds", "thought master", "poor, deluded masses trudging in dirt below from whence they came" when talking about enterprise software if you don't want the comparison. That's what this is, enterprise software. No need to imply others are mindless sheep being ultra sensitive when discussing enterprise software.
    - A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago
      My friend. Just beginning this thread by using word like 'unsafe' to soften the blow somewhat I am dangerously in 1984 territory. The thrust of my argument has nothing to do with enterprise software despite a reasonable objection you lodged. The words were intended to be noticed ( and reacted to ). And they were. There is a reason for this and goes something like this. I dislike commercial interests trumping sanity. Crazy. I know. edit: I also would like to note you did not address my actual point.

ipaddr 3y ago

Might be important if you are trying to find ways to prevent suicide. Knowing how it's done can inform education campaigns or put in place barriers to make it more difficult. When we choose one simple use-case and apply it to everything we lose out. Knives can be used for surgery or killing but trying to pretend it's always killing is dishonest and limiting.