3 ms·

Welding, plumbing, electrician… plenty of work for the foreseeable future.

by roflchoppa 3y ago

steve_adams_86 3y ago
Work that doesn’t pay particularly well and can be hard on your body. This is a huge departure.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  Experienced welders, plumbers, and electricians make as much as senior software devs do, at least in my part of the US.
  - tharkun__ 3y ago
    Which works or doesn't work depending on where you are. You're not the son of that particular (local) biker gang's members or in favour with them? Sorry, no welding for you! As a software person this sort of thing seldom comes to mind. What we also dismiss is all that professional association and certification stuff that we don't have to deal with. I don't know about you, but so far I still like the freedom and ability to move up and around we have better than being stuck working myself up from entry level through to a high paying job by waiting for someone else to retire or move up and out of the way first. Or you become a business owner, which in the plumbing and electrician business I guess is very common. But not everyone is cut out for that.
    - apercu 3y ago
      "You're not the son of that particular (local) biker gang's members or in favour with them? Sorry, no welding for you!" That seems super local. I've got welder friends (and electrician friend, and plumber friends and my brother is a GC). I've lived in Texas, Michigan, Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin and Ontario. I've never heard that biker gangs have a monopoly on welding jobs. And in my crazy 20s I dated a CC Riders ex-wife.
      - tharkun__ 3y ago
        I'm not a welder so I can't tell you more. It's hearsay. I guess it's the same kind of super local / random thing as restaurant owners may have to deal with in order for their establishment to be "protected" :shrug:
  - astura 3y ago
    Median pay (2022) from the U.S. BUREAU OF LABOR STATISTICS. Welders: $47,540 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/production/welders-cutters-solderers-and-brazers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/production/welders-cutters-solderers... Plumbers: $60,090 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/plumbers-pipefitters-and-steamfitters.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/plumbers... Electricians: $60,240 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/electricians.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/electric... Software Developer: $124,200 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/...
    - the_only_law 3y ago
      Even if you’re in an area where $60k is decent, I’m not sure it’s as great as it sounds. I remember talking to an electrician turned Uber driver a couple years ago. He was making ok money, but with insane hours and in shitty environments. I don’t recall exactly what he said he wanted to do, but he was looking at getting out of the field. Anecdotally, I’ve heard similar stories from friends in nursing.
lesuorac 3y ago
lol? It's so much better to work for 1/2 as long for 3x the salary than twice as long for 1/3 of the salary. There's plenty of minimum wage job for the foreseeable future as well; but being employeed 24/7 is not the metric to optimize here.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > It's so much better to work for 1/2 as long for 3x the salary than twice as long for 1/3 of the salary. Not necessarily. It's not better if your work is making your life 3x worse, for instance.
astura 3y ago
Is this a joke comment? Those people work twice as hard as me and get paid half of what I do.
- CuriousCosmic 3y ago
  Idk what you get paid but there are a lot of avenues for the trades to make well over 100k or 200k.
  - astura 3y ago
    You're wrong - there's not "a lot of avenues" for the trades to make "well over 100k or 200k." Median pay (2022) from the U.S. BUREAU OF LABOR STATISTICS. Welders: $47,540 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/production/welders-cutters-solderers-and-brazers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/production/welders-cutters-solderers... Plumbers: $60,090 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/plumbers-pipefitters-and-steamfitters.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/plumbers... Electricians: $60,240 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/electricians.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/electric... In the past Hacker News comments also claimed truckers were very highly paid Heavy and Tractor-trailer Truck Drivers: $49,920 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/heavy-and-tractor-trailer-truck-drivers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/h... We can compare those numbers to Software Developer: $124,200 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/... Maybe some individual plumbers are making hundreds of thousands of dollars, but they are an extreme outlier. The other question is how many hours are they working a week to make that much? I'm guessing you either have to work lots of overtime or be a business owner. I have a lot of friends and family in the trade and the trucking industry. I made more than every single one of them and they all work more hours than me. The one friend I have that makes "almost $100k/year" works almost every weekend to make that.
    - mydogcanpurr 3y ago
      I think a nationwide stat isn’t very useful because it ignores cost of living and the fact that most SWEs are concentrated in particular areas of the country. I think it’s very likely based on this data that software engineering just pays better in all or most regions, but this data is a bit skewed because of confounders.
nonameiguess 3y ago
This sentiment gets expressed a lot on Hacker News, but I really wonder how many people saying this are actually familiar with these careers. I was the first person in my family to ever go to college. My dad, both grandfathers, all of my uncles, my brother-in-law, most of my cousins all worked or work in skilled trades. Aside from the physical demands which can and do tend to eventually beat you up (my dad's knees barely work at this point), sure, it's stable and reliable work, eventually, once you've become senior enough in your union. But it takes a while to get to that point, and it can be very hit or miss depending on where you live and local economic conditions. The GFC and Covid were both devastating. My brother-in-law got addicted to heroin and did a stint in prison, largely because his entire career field effectively disappeared in 2009 and 2010 when commercial construction just stopped happening everywhere in LA and Orange counties. Nothing to do that would pay him for two years. And even at the senior end, unless you're a contractor owning your own business employing other skilled tradespeople, the money is still at best half what I earn to lay in bed all day typing on a laptop. I've spent the last 20 years now in cushy, easy jobs giving away thousands of dollars at a time to the rest of my family because of the general unreliability of their income streams working in skilled trades.
- astura 3y ago
  >I really wonder how many people saying this are actually familiar with these careers They are fetishizing these careers because they're totally unfamiliar with them.
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  Now imagine not even having a union. But yes, the level of delusion here, particularly around the pay for tradespeople, can be striking. I suspect they will encourage their own children to go to college and not pursue a trade (and I don't blame them for that).

Welding, plumbing, electrician… plenty of work for the foreseeable future.

steve_adams_86 3y ago

Work that doesn’t pay particularly well and can be hard on your body. This is a huge departure.

JohnFen 3y ago
Experienced welders, plumbers, and electricians make as much as senior software devs do, at least in my part of the US.
- tharkun__ 3y ago
  Which works or doesn't work depending on where you are. You're not the son of that particular (local) biker gang's members or in favour with them? Sorry, no welding for you! As a software person this sort of thing seldom comes to mind. What we also dismiss is all that professional association and certification stuff that we don't have to deal with. I don't know about you, but so far I still like the freedom and ability to move up and around we have better than being stuck working myself up from entry level through to a high paying job by waiting for someone else to retire or move up and out of the way first. Or you become a business owner, which in the plumbing and electrician business I guess is very common. But not everyone is cut out for that.
  - apercu 3y ago
    "You're not the son of that particular (local) biker gang's members or in favour with them? Sorry, no welding for you!" That seems super local. I've got welder friends (and electrician friend, and plumber friends and my brother is a GC). I've lived in Texas, Michigan, Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin and Ontario. I've never heard that biker gangs have a monopoly on welding jobs. And in my crazy 20s I dated a CC Riders ex-wife.
    - tharkun__ 3y ago
      I'm not a welder so I can't tell you more. It's hearsay. I guess it's the same kind of super local / random thing as restaurant owners may have to deal with in order for their establishment to be "protected" :shrug:
- astura 3y ago
  Median pay (2022) from the U.S. BUREAU OF LABOR STATISTICS. Welders: $47,540 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/production/welders-cutters-solderers-and-brazers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/production/welders-cutters-solderers... Plumbers: $60,090 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/plumbers-pipefitters-and-steamfitters.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/plumbers... Electricians: $60,240 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/electricians.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/electric... Software Developer: $124,200 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/...
  - the_only_law 3y ago
    Even if you’re in an area where $60k is decent, I’m not sure it’s as great as it sounds. I remember talking to an electrician turned Uber driver a couple years ago. He was making ok money, but with insane hours and in shitty environments. I don’t recall exactly what he said he wanted to do, but he was looking at getting out of the field. Anecdotally, I’ve heard similar stories from friends in nursing.

lesuorac 3y ago

lol? It's so much better to work for 1/2 as long for 3x the salary than twice as long for 1/3 of the salary. There's plenty of minimum wage job for the foreseeable future as well; but being employeed 24/7 is not the metric to optimize here.

JohnFen 3y ago
> It's so much better to work for 1/2 as long for 3x the salary than twice as long for 1/3 of the salary. Not necessarily. It's not better if your work is making your life 3x worse, for instance.

astura 3y ago

Is this a joke comment? Those people work twice as hard as me and get paid half of what I do.

CuriousCosmic 3y ago
Idk what you get paid but there are a lot of avenues for the trades to make well over 100k or 200k.
- astura 3y ago
  You're wrong - there's not "a lot of avenues" for the trades to make "well over 100k or 200k." Median pay (2022) from the U.S. BUREAU OF LABOR STATISTICS. Welders: $47,540 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/production/welders-cutters-solderers-and-brazers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/production/welders-cutters-solderers... Plumbers: $60,090 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/plumbers-pipefitters-and-steamfitters.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/plumbers... Electricians: $60,240 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/electricians.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/electric... In the past Hacker News comments also claimed truckers were very highly paid Heavy and Tractor-trailer Truck Drivers: $49,920 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/heavy-and-tractor-trailer-truck-drivers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/h... We can compare those numbers to Software Developer: $124,200 per year https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/... Maybe some individual plumbers are making hundreds of thousands of dollars, but they are an extreme outlier. The other question is how many hours are they working a week to make that much? I'm guessing you either have to work lots of overtime or be a business owner. I have a lot of friends and family in the trade and the trucking industry. I made more than every single one of them and they all work more hours than me. The one friend I have that makes "almost $100k/year" works almost every weekend to make that.
  - mydogcanpurr 3y ago
    I think a nationwide stat isn’t very useful because it ignores cost of living and the fact that most SWEs are concentrated in particular areas of the country. I think it’s very likely based on this data that software engineering just pays better in all or most regions, but this data is a bit skewed because of confounders.

nonameiguess 3y ago

This sentiment gets expressed a lot on Hacker News, but I really wonder how many people saying this are actually familiar with these careers. I was the first person in my family to ever go to college. My dad, both grandfathers, all of my uncles, my brother-in-law, most of my cousins all worked or work in skilled trades. Aside from the physical demands which can and do tend to eventually beat you up (my dad's knees barely work at this point), sure, it's stable and reliable work, eventually, once you've become senior enough in your union. But it takes a while to get to that point, and it can be very hit or miss depending on where you live and local economic conditions. The GFC and Covid were both devastating. My brother-in-law got addicted to heroin and did a stint in prison, largely because his entire career field effectively disappeared in 2009 and 2010 when commercial construction just stopped happening everywhere in LA and Orange counties. Nothing to do that would pay him for two years. And even at the senior end, unless you're a contractor owning your own business employing other skilled tradespeople, the money is still at best half what I earn to lay in bed all day typing on a laptop. I've spent the last 20 years now in cushy, easy jobs giving away thousands of dollars at a time to the rest of my family because of the general unreliability of their income streams working in skilled trades.

astura 3y ago
>I really wonder how many people saying this are actually familiar with these careers They are fetishizing these careers because they're totally unfamiliar with them.
hotpotamus 3y ago
Now imagine not even having a union. But yes, the level of delusion here, particularly around the pay for tradespeople, can be striking. I suspect they will encourage their own children to go to college and not pursue a trade (and I don't blame them for that).