7 ms·

One thing about fat that I think is overlooked is how fat today might be muscle tomorrow, and how little companies try to convert it. Maybe a person is in a ba

One thing about fat that I think is overlooked is how fat today might be muscle tomorrow, and how little companies try to convert it. Maybe a person is in a bad role, on a bad team, or simply doesn't have experience or skills fitting the specific requirements of that single point in time. I've been a high performer in the past. Now I'm a low performer (I'm slow) after the company has changed the way it treats teams/work and the technology shifted. My disability isn't suited to the new working style/process (or lack of). However, I do excellent work outside of my regular day to day responsibilities, like my secondary role as an ASC. My manager even said that I'd I could just speed up my regular work I would easily get the highest rating and a promotion. Hearing him say that really sucks because I unable to just speed up with my disability in the given work environment. The company/managers have made no effort in helping me find a role that works better with my skills or is impacted less by my disability. It seems there may not be any of the traditional roles/teams left. So now I fill midlevel roles and move team to team trying to find somewhere that I fit in. If I can find a place I fit in like before, then I would easily excel. Another example was a dev on another team that I worked with a few years ago was sloppy, slow, and just all around seemed like a poor performer - and even our tech lead and manager talked poorly about him. He was even considerably slower than me. About 3 years after that he's now the head of data and analytics for our international operations.

no_wizard 3y ago
You should file for disability accommodations. That is completely legal to ask. Sometimes you need to back it up with documentation, but i suspect that won't be a problem. They can't discriminate against you for this.
- giantg2 3y ago
  I have documentation. They don't care. HR said to just work with my manager on accommodations. My main problem is dealing with ambiguity and context switching. That's something they can't change given their chosen work model. The old model of working was that you supported 1 main app and maybe a smaller 1 or 2 that were related. These were usually in 1 stack and well documented. The new model is that teams are typical supporting 6-10 apps in multiple stacks. I'm slow when switching between apps and stacks, and without consistent exposure to a single app/stack, I won't get faster. It's funny though - they talk a big game and even hire in Auticon contractors, but then refuse to do anything for existing employees. I assume a least some of those contractors have similar difficulties as me.
  - itsboring 3y ago
    I don’t have any (diagnosed) neurological disability but I would do poorly in that situation too. Excessive context switching is a major source of stress: adrenaline, fast heartbeat, high blood pressure. Makes it almost impossible to stay focused and motivated.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  The way that Amazon’s PIP works, you are highly incentivized not to fight it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37963423 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37963423 The risk/reward isn’t worth it unless you’re close to a vesting period.
- babyshake 3y ago
  They can discriminate against you. They just need to make sure it's not obviously discrimination.
  - giantg2 3y ago
    Yeah, that was a risk I was willing to take by disclosing my disability. So far it doesn't seem like it made anything worse, but it hasn't made anything better either.
    - theGnuMe 3y ago
      I'd speak to an employment lawyer and see what they advise. A couple hundred bucks for the piece of mind might be worth it. You'd get an opinion on what they can and can't do and what you can do to proactively manage the situation.
      - giantg2 3y ago
        Thanks but I don't think I will. The thing about disabilities is that they have to provide reasonable accommodations. What is reasonable is wildly subjective. There's really not much to be done.
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        So exactly what do you think he’s going to accomplish spending years working with an employment lawyer? A reinstatement of his job at a toxic company? Some monetary compensation that probably won’t be worth the headache? That energy can be better spent looking for a new job. My granddad use to tell me to never chase after old money or old girlfriends.
- pharrington 3y ago
  Unfortunately, there's a HUMONGOUS difference between "not allowed to" and "can't" when a company optimizes for profit at the expense of human well-being.
steveBK123 3y ago
Agreed that what is left unsaid in a lot of performance conversations is the person-role match. Someone isn't a high/low performer globally, just at that time in that role. Wall St firms I have worked at typically try to find different roles for people before marking them as at risk of a layoff. Not sure FAANG behaves the same, but from all these PIP discussions it seems not.
- away271828 3y ago
  I've absoluttely been in a position where the ground moved under me. I went from doing (based on evaluations, RSUs, etc.) from doing a very good job to bouncing around a bunch of managers and groups in roles that I wasn't really suited for and didn't have much real interest in. The only saving grace was that I was pretty close to semi-retiring anyway.
  - giantg2 3y ago
    I've been bouncing for about 5 years. Have about another 20 to go. Not sure how I'm going to handle that.
    - rad_gruchalski 3y ago
      Consider a different job, and pick up some responsibilities.
      - giantg2 3y ago
        What are you talking about? I can't change jobs now due to home life responsibilities and having specialized in dead tech. I have picked up responsibilities. In the past I've filled the role of a senior dev for a year and a tech lead for another. I volunteered to be an ASC. I volunteered for all sorts of other responsibilities. Perhaps the world doesn't work in the way that you think. It's not possible for everyone to successfully job hop, especially with a disability and home responsibilities. Just picking up responsibilities doesn't mean you'll get rewarded.
pavel_lishin 3y ago
What's an ASC?
- giantg2 3y ago
  Application security champion. Basically the Sec part of DevSecOps for the team. It sounds a lot cooler than it is. It's mostly paperwork.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
kjkjadksj 3y ago
This is just how companies operate today. Burn furniture to heat the place for a quarter. Sell your property to a for profit entity you lease from instead to save a line item today and no doubt get screwed when its time to renegotiate the lease (long after whoever made this decision has left the company I’m sure). Fire staff and rehire instead of retrain. Its all myopic thinking that you’d find in any MBA program sold to you as the best practices in modern business.
- j45 3y ago
  Modernizing MBA's will have to happen at some point.
anvil-on-my-toe 3y ago
I think managers in tech companies are very often just really untalented as leaders. Good leaders create more leaders. Growing talent and getting the best out of people should be the goal for any leader, and I've seen so little of that from the ones I worked with. After a point it just becomes part of the landscape, a pervasive culture of not recognizing what good leadership looks like, and people filtering out of the industry because they're over it.
- giantg2 3y ago
  I'm actually in a financial company, but I assume it's all pretty similar at this point.
didntknowya 3y ago
could've picked a better analogy that don't reinforce the fitness myth that fat "turns into" muscle. fat is fat. muscle is muscle. one does not convert into another. it can be broken down into energy to be used but ultimately each cell starts from scratch.
- mlrtime 3y ago
  You're correct and being downvoted. It's funny because it's the exact opposite metaphor than what they want. Burn fat = PIP bottom 6% Grown new muscle = Hire new workers

no_wizard 3y ago

You should file for disability accommodations. That is completely legal to ask. Sometimes you need to back it up with documentation, but i suspect that won't be a problem. They can't discriminate against you for this.

giantg2 3y ago
I have documentation. They don't care. HR said to just work with my manager on accommodations. My main problem is dealing with ambiguity and context switching. That's something they can't change given their chosen work model. The old model of working was that you supported 1 main app and maybe a smaller 1 or 2 that were related. These were usually in 1 stack and well documented. The new model is that teams are typical supporting 6-10 apps in multiple stacks. I'm slow when switching between apps and stacks, and without consistent exposure to a single app/stack, I won't get faster. It's funny though - they talk a big game and even hire in Auticon contractors, but then refuse to do anything for existing employees. I assume a least some of those contractors have similar difficulties as me.
- itsboring 3y ago
  I don’t have any (diagnosed) neurological disability but I would do poorly in that situation too. Excessive context switching is a major source of stress: adrenaline, fast heartbeat, high blood pressure. Makes it almost impossible to stay focused and motivated.
scarface_74 3y ago
The way that Amazon’s PIP works, you are highly incentivized not to fight it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37963423 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37963423 The risk/reward isn’t worth it unless you’re close to a vesting period.
babyshake 3y ago
They can discriminate against you. They just need to make sure it's not obviously discrimination.
- giantg2 3y ago
  Yeah, that was a risk I was willing to take by disclosing my disability. So far it doesn't seem like it made anything worse, but it hasn't made anything better either.
  - theGnuMe 3y ago
    I'd speak to an employment lawyer and see what they advise. A couple hundred bucks for the piece of mind might be worth it. You'd get an opinion on what they can and can't do and what you can do to proactively manage the situation.
    - giantg2 3y ago
      Thanks but I don't think I will. The thing about disabilities is that they have to provide reasonable accommodations. What is reasonable is wildly subjective. There's really not much to be done.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      So exactly what do you think he’s going to accomplish spending years working with an employment lawyer? A reinstatement of his job at a toxic company? Some monetary compensation that probably won’t be worth the headache? That energy can be better spent looking for a new job. My granddad use to tell me to never chase after old money or old girlfriends.
pharrington 3y ago
Unfortunately, there's a HUMONGOUS difference between "not allowed to" and "can't" when a company optimizes for profit at the expense of human well-being.

steveBK123 3y ago

Agreed that what is left unsaid in a lot of performance conversations is the person-role match. Someone isn't a high/low performer globally, just at that time in that role. Wall St firms I have worked at typically try to find different roles for people before marking them as at risk of a layoff. Not sure FAANG behaves the same, but from all these PIP discussions it seems not.

away271828 3y ago
I've absoluttely been in a position where the ground moved under me. I went from doing (based on evaluations, RSUs, etc.) from doing a very good job to bouncing around a bunch of managers and groups in roles that I wasn't really suited for and didn't have much real interest in. The only saving grace was that I was pretty close to semi-retiring anyway.
- giantg2 3y ago
  I've been bouncing for about 5 years. Have about another 20 to go. Not sure how I'm going to handle that.
  - rad_gruchalski 3y ago
    Consider a different job, and pick up some responsibilities.
    - giantg2 3y ago
      What are you talking about? I can't change jobs now due to home life responsibilities and having specialized in dead tech. I have picked up responsibilities. In the past I've filled the role of a senior dev for a year and a tech lead for another. I volunteered to be an ASC. I volunteered for all sorts of other responsibilities. Perhaps the world doesn't work in the way that you think. It's not possible for everyone to successfully job hop, especially with a disability and home responsibilities. Just picking up responsibilities doesn't mean you'll get rewarded.

pavel_lishin 3y ago

What's an ASC?

giantg2 3y ago
Application security champion. Basically the Sec part of DevSecOps for the team. It sounds a lot cooler than it is. It's mostly paperwork.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

kjkjadksj 3y ago

This is just how companies operate today. Burn furniture to heat the place for a quarter. Sell your property to a for profit entity you lease from instead to save a line item today and no doubt get screwed when its time to renegotiate the lease (long after whoever made this decision has left the company I’m sure). Fire staff and rehire instead of retrain. Its all myopic thinking that you’d find in any MBA program sold to you as the best practices in modern business.

j45 3y ago
Modernizing MBA's will have to happen at some point.

anvil-on-my-toe 3y ago

I think managers in tech companies are very often just really untalented as leaders. Good leaders create more leaders. Growing talent and getting the best out of people should be the goal for any leader, and I've seen so little of that from the ones I worked with. After a point it just becomes part of the landscape, a pervasive culture of not recognizing what good leadership looks like, and people filtering out of the industry because they're over it.

giantg2 3y ago
I'm actually in a financial company, but I assume it's all pretty similar at this point.

didntknowya 3y ago

could've picked a better analogy that don't reinforce the fitness myth that fat "turns into" muscle. fat is fat. muscle is muscle. one does not convert into another. it can be broken down into energy to be used but ultimately each cell starts from scratch.

mlrtime 3y ago
You're correct and being downvoted. It's funny because it's the exact opposite metaphor than what they want. Burn fat = PIP bottom 6% Grown new muscle = Hire new workers