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Yup, pretty amazing. I had a bike that I rode a fair bit - same tires for 20 years. Back in the day, cars used to have flat tires pretty regularly - no longer -

Yup, pretty amazing. I had a bike that I rode a fair bit - same tires for 20 years. Back in the day, cars used to have flat tires pretty regularly - no longer - now some cars don't even come with the little donut wheels. It is genuinely amazing how reliable tires have become.

jtbayly 3y ago
Removing the spare tire is not an advance.
- compiler-guy 3y ago
  Not having a spare is definitely a problem when you need it. But a spare is needed so rarely today. And that is a major, major advance. One hundred years ago, a car with two spare tires were not that unusual--tires were sufficiently unreliable that you might not manage a trip without _two_ flats, but tires improved, and now the only long-overland back-country adventurers carry two.
  - Syonyk 3y ago
    A hundred years ago, spare tires were also carried in a somewhat more visible and easy to access location. I'm sure "symmetry" was a consideration in having two as well.
- kube-system 3y ago
  Spare tires under normal operation are dead weight which is the costliest possible engineering compromise to make on a vehicle, as it decreases every performance characteristic: acceleration, deceleration, cornering, fuel economy, etc. Their only reason for existing is to compensate for the historically poor observed reliability of tires. This has recently improved with TPMS mandates and better engineered tires.
  - jtbayly 3y ago
    AAA estimates 220 million flat tires annually in the US.[0] The existence of spare tires has nothing to do with poor observed reliability. It is because of lack of 100% reliability. It's because when people get a flat, they don't want to be stuck and have to be towed. They want to be able to do something about it and get back on the road. All my flats have happened not because I lacked TPMS sensors but because something poked right through. Low tire pressure only accounts for 15% of flats. [1] If you work for AAA, then sure, trying to convince people to get rid of their spares makes sense. But waiting around for AAA doesn't sound like a fun plan for me, especially when they won't be able to put a spare on for me, but will have to tow me somewhere. [0]: https://cluballiance.aaa.com/public-affairs/press-release https://cluballiance.aaa.com/public-affairs/press-release [1]: https://tiregrades.com/buying-guides/how-many-flat-tires-per-year-occur/#The_Importance_of_Spare_Tires https://tiregrades.com/buying-guides/how-many-flat-tires-per...
    - kube-system 3y ago
      > The existence of spare tires has nothing to do with poor observed reliability. It is because of lack of 100% reliability. Do you carry a spare battery, or spare keys? Because AAA says those are also among their highest reasons for service calls. > All my flats have happened not because I lacked TPMS sensors but because something poked right through. Simple punctures in tread can usually be fixed with an inflator kit, or a plug kit.
brnt 3y ago
> I had a bike that I rode a fair bit - same tires for 20 years. Impossible. A fair bit is 20km+ a day which is ~4000km/yr. That's in the order what an average tire is rated for (5-10Mm). Let's say you had tires 4 times as good, you still needed to change 5 times.
- kube-system 3y ago
  That's a lot of precision, considering "a fair bit" has approximately zero significant digits.
No1 3y ago
> now some cars don't even come with the little donut wheels Those cars come with “run flat” tires, which supposedly allow you to drive a few miles without damaging the wheel when the tire is flat. After which, instead of patching the tire, it must be discarded. Quite the advancement.
- kube-system 3y ago
  That was the case on some nicer cars when automakers stopped providing spares. But many cars today come with neither a spare nor run-flats. Many now are shipping with a normal tires, an inflator, sealant, and a roadside assistance telephone number.
- kwhitefoot 3y ago
  No they don't.
- JoBrad 3y ago
  Doesn’t seem like a bad trade off for not having to replace your rim, if the tire blows out and you’re unable to stop.

jtbayly 3y ago

Removing the spare tire is not an advance.

compiler-guy 3y ago
Not having a spare is definitely a problem when you need it. But a spare is needed so rarely today. And that is a major, major advance. One hundred years ago, a car with two spare tires were not that unusual--tires were sufficiently unreliable that you might not manage a trip without _two_ flats, but tires improved, and now the only long-overland back-country adventurers carry two.
- Syonyk 3y ago
  A hundred years ago, spare tires were also carried in a somewhat more visible and easy to access location. I'm sure "symmetry" was a consideration in having two as well.
kube-system 3y ago
Spare tires under normal operation are dead weight which is the costliest possible engineering compromise to make on a vehicle, as it decreases every performance characteristic: acceleration, deceleration, cornering, fuel economy, etc. Their only reason for existing is to compensate for the historically poor observed reliability of tires. This has recently improved with TPMS mandates and better engineered tires.
- jtbayly 3y ago
  AAA estimates 220 million flat tires annually in the US.[0] The existence of spare tires has nothing to do with poor observed reliability. It is because of lack of 100% reliability. It's because when people get a flat, they don't want to be stuck and have to be towed. They want to be able to do something about it and get back on the road. All my flats have happened not because I lacked TPMS sensors but because something poked right through. Low tire pressure only accounts for 15% of flats. [1] If you work for AAA, then sure, trying to convince people to get rid of their spares makes sense. But waiting around for AAA doesn't sound like a fun plan for me, especially when they won't be able to put a spare on for me, but will have to tow me somewhere. [0]: https://cluballiance.aaa.com/public-affairs/press-release https://cluballiance.aaa.com/public-affairs/press-release [1]: https://tiregrades.com/buying-guides/how-many-flat-tires-per-year-occur/#The_Importance_of_Spare_Tires https://tiregrades.com/buying-guides/how-many-flat-tires-per...
  - kube-system 3y ago
    > The existence of spare tires has nothing to do with poor observed reliability. It is because of lack of 100% reliability. Do you carry a spare battery, or spare keys? Because AAA says those are also among their highest reasons for service calls. > All my flats have happened not because I lacked TPMS sensors but because something poked right through. Simple punctures in tread can usually be fixed with an inflator kit, or a plug kit.

brnt 3y ago

> I had a bike that I rode a fair bit - same tires for 20 years. Impossible. A fair bit is 20km+ a day which is ~4000km/yr. That's in the order what an average tire is rated for (5-10Mm). Let's say you had tires 4 times as good, you still needed to change 5 times.

kube-system 3y ago
That's a lot of precision, considering "a fair bit" has approximately zero significant digits.

No1 3y ago

> now some cars don't even come with the little donut wheels Those cars come with “run flat” tires, which supposedly allow you to drive a few miles without damaging the wheel when the tire is flat. After which, instead of patching the tire, it must be discarded. Quite the advancement.

kube-system 3y ago
That was the case on some nicer cars when automakers stopped providing spares. But many cars today come with neither a spare nor run-flats. Many now are shipping with a normal tires, an inflator, sealant, and a roadside assistance telephone number.
kwhitefoot 3y ago
No they don't.
JoBrad 3y ago
Doesn’t seem like a bad trade off for not having to replace your rim, if the tire blows out and you’re unable to stop.