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I think that's an underappreciated statistic. Everyone's worried about the range, but the reality is that the range doesn't matter at all in city driving, and

by pornel 3y ago

I think that's an underappreciated statistic. Everyone's worried about the range, but the reality is that the range doesn't matter at all in city driving, and OTOH no BEV will have range long enough for a serious road trip, and it will have to recharge multiple times. And then the difference is whether the charging stops will be quick coffee breaks, or add frustrating hours to the trip time. Here's another data source of 1000km trips in various BEVs with charging time: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1V6ucyFGKWuSQzvI8lMzvvWJHrBS82echMVJH37kwgjE/edit#gid=15442336 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1V6ucyFGKWuSQzvI8lMzv... - With a fast-charging EV, a 1000km trip can be only half an hour slower than a cannonball run in an ICE car, or can be 5 hours slower in a Nissan Leaf, or 3 hours slower in a Toyota bz4x.

tlofreso 3y ago
Bjorn is the GOAT for EV testing
code_runner 3y ago
In a few 7 or so hour drives in our ev, charging stops added probably an hour total. For how we drive it actually wasn’t bad at all and the chargers were (almost) all in nice spots where we could grab a coffee and use the restroom. I wish I could squeeze a bit more range out at interstate cruising speed though.
- ewams 3y ago
  Has anyone done the math for how much "coffee" EV drivers consume vs ICE drivers? Wonder what the extra costs are for EV drivers while waiting for a charge.
  - code_runner 3y ago
    haha I'd be surprised if I'm drinking more coffee than usual during those drives.... but any road trip I am definitely consuming more snacks and candy due to very poor self control.
Retric 3y ago
Long range EV’s are already at 5+ hours of driving at highway speeds, adding a single 60% charge (20% to 80%) and your talking well over 8 hours or ~1,000km which is longer than what most people do in a single day. As such battery capacity is a huge deal on road trips assuming you can charge to full overnight and don’t excessively speed.
- harshaw 3y ago
  Not sure I have a long range EV with the Ioniq 5. But in the winter with precoditioning I basically only get 2 1/2 hours. You can't run the battery to 0, precoditioning sucks up a ton of energy, and you need to get to a fast charger.
  - Retric 3y ago
    IMO long range starts at 400+ EPA meanwhile the Lucid air is over 500. But 2.5 hours vs a 303 EPA EV is low. Resistive heaters at 32f can cost you 25% range vs 6% with a heat pump so that could be your issue. Two tips that may help is preheating your car while still plugged in and doing a partial preconditioning before charging on your road trip. That or your driving habits, speeding has diminishing returns when it costs you range.
- b112 3y ago
  Not sure where you get these numbers, bjt a 600km range is 480km when charging to 80%, and you don't wait until 0 range to try to find a working fast charger. That means 600km becomes 400km or less at 80% charges, and when you drove 140km/hr or more, the acceptable speed in many US states, that means less than 3hrs, and 600km isn't rated at 140km/hr speeds! In other words, EVs don't work for long range driving. Some may drive slow, or not count the 10 minutes to get on/off road and find a charger, and the 20 minutes to hook up and charge, and the potential to not find a free charger.. but I did. And when I used these sensible, real world values, a trip from Quebec to California, which I take from time to time, changed from 3 days, to 8. Lots of people drive like this. Lots. Especially Canucks wanting to escape snow, darkness, and wolves. I've seen all the replies before, and all of them take some random thing, which I base on reality, averages, and fact, and try to pretend that ot doesn't matter. But it does. As others have said, if you are city driving only? Great! And many families have two cars, and that's another great place for an EV. One EV, on gas. And we will get there range wise. We're just not even close yet, for long drives.
steveBK123 3y ago
These tests are interesting to me as someone in the traffic congested Northeast US. You can see cars with varying battery size x efficiencies competing similarly on the list. A variance of 40min on an 8-9hour trip isn't really that much considering I hit a 30min variance in a 90min trip around here due to traffic. However in the US the problem you have is a much less mature charging network, especially for non-Tesla. An ideal future state is that EV fast chargers are as plentiful, well located, and closely spaced as gas stations. Actual 150kW vs 350kW charge rates have never in practice been a problem for me versus fumbling with broken charging network apps, inoperable credit card readers, broken chargers, de-rated chargers, congested chargers, veering 10miles off the highway to find a charger, etc. Another factor is chargers being too far apart such that I need to take bathroom breaks in between rest stops that have chargers, and therefore double-stop. This would not happen with an ICE vehicle. Ideal charging curves, conditioned battery, and max charge rates will be dividing factors in performance once the above is sorted out in US..
haliskerbas 3y ago
This doesn’t account for going on a road trip during a popular time. During the holidays my socials are full of people queuing up to an hour to get a spot at a Tesla charger to then start charging.

by pornel 3y ago

tlofreso 3y ago

Bjorn is the GOAT for EV testing

code_runner 3y ago

In a few 7 or so hour drives in our ev, charging stops added probably an hour total. For how we drive it actually wasn’t bad at all and the chargers were (almost) all in nice spots where we could grab a coffee and use the restroom. I wish I could squeeze a bit more range out at interstate cruising speed though.

ewams 3y ago
Has anyone done the math for how much "coffee" EV drivers consume vs ICE drivers? Wonder what the extra costs are for EV drivers while waiting for a charge.
- code_runner 3y ago
  haha I'd be surprised if I'm drinking more coffee than usual during those drives.... but any road trip I am definitely consuming more snacks and candy due to very poor self control.

Retric 3y ago

Long range EV’s are already at 5+ hours of driving at highway speeds, adding a single 60% charge (20% to 80%) and your talking well over 8 hours or ~1,000km which is longer than what most people do in a single day. As such battery capacity is a huge deal on road trips assuming you can charge to full overnight and don’t excessively speed.

harshaw 3y ago
Not sure I have a long range EV with the Ioniq 5. But in the winter with precoditioning I basically only get 2 1/2 hours. You can't run the battery to 0, precoditioning sucks up a ton of energy, and you need to get to a fast charger.
- Retric 3y ago
  IMO long range starts at 400+ EPA meanwhile the Lucid air is over 500. But 2.5 hours vs a 303 EPA EV is low. Resistive heaters at 32f can cost you 25% range vs 6% with a heat pump so that could be your issue. Two tips that may help is preheating your car while still plugged in and doing a partial preconditioning before charging on your road trip. That or your driving habits, speeding has diminishing returns when it costs you range.
b112 3y ago
Not sure where you get these numbers, bjt a 600km range is 480km when charging to 80%, and you don't wait until 0 range to try to find a working fast charger. That means 600km becomes 400km or less at 80% charges, and when you drove 140km/hr or more, the acceptable speed in many US states, that means less than 3hrs, and 600km isn't rated at 140km/hr speeds! In other words, EVs don't work for long range driving. Some may drive slow, or not count the 10 minutes to get on/off road and find a charger, and the 20 minutes to hook up and charge, and the potential to not find a free charger.. but I did. And when I used these sensible, real world values, a trip from Quebec to California, which I take from time to time, changed from 3 days, to 8. Lots of people drive like this. Lots. Especially Canucks wanting to escape snow, darkness, and wolves. I've seen all the replies before, and all of them take some random thing, which I base on reality, averages, and fact, and try to pretend that ot doesn't matter. But it does. As others have said, if you are city driving only? Great! And many families have two cars, and that's another great place for an EV. One EV, on gas. And we will get there range wise. We're just not even close yet, for long drives.

steveBK123 3y ago

These tests are interesting to me as someone in the traffic congested Northeast US. You can see cars with varying battery size x efficiencies competing similarly on the list. A variance of 40min on an 8-9hour trip isn't really that much considering I hit a 30min variance in a 90min trip around here due to traffic. However in the US the problem you have is a much less mature charging network, especially for non-Tesla. An ideal future state is that EV fast chargers are as plentiful, well located, and closely spaced as gas stations. Actual 150kW vs 350kW charge rates have never in practice been a problem for me versus fumbling with broken charging network apps, inoperable credit card readers, broken chargers, de-rated chargers, congested chargers, veering 10miles off the highway to find a charger, etc. Another factor is chargers being too far apart such that I need to take bathroom breaks in between rest stops that have chargers, and therefore double-stop. This would not happen with an ICE vehicle. Ideal charging curves, conditioned battery, and max charge rates will be dividing factors in performance once the above is sorted out in US..

haliskerbas 3y ago

This doesn’t account for going on a road trip during a popular time. During the holidays my socials are full of people queuing up to an hour to get a spot at a Tesla charger to then start charging.