4 ms·

> Why take care of one person? In sum, it does not pay off. That assessment is extremely short-sighted. The reason it will pay off is because other employees

> Why take care of one person? In sum, it does not pay off. That assessment is extremely short-sighted. The reason it will pay off is because other employees will see how you treat the one person. If they see you give someone who is struggling needed support, they will know that in the future, they might get that as well. Having a stable environment full of people who trust each other will pay off far more in the future. > Also there are processes to be met officially By "officially" do you mean legally? Because it sounds to me that a good faith law was met with a bad faith effort by that company. It wastes a candidates time, and gives false hope, while applying to the letter of the law without actually following the spirit of it. Which actually feeds into the broken legal culture of the PIPs. It also wastes HRs time, playing to make the government happy while ignoring potential workplace problems they could be addressing.

mschuster91 3y ago
> By "officially" do you mean legally? Yes. Union contracts or in the case of public service actual law... basically, the provisions exist to prevent "backdoor deals" or at least make them really expensive. In the end, it's all performance theatre.
- pierat 3y ago
  When I worked at a public university, that's exactly how that stuff worked. For any job on the portal, had 1 of 3 possibilities. 1. The team actually needed a person. Job is legit. 2. The team knew who they wanted, and opening the job was a formality that was legally required. Anybody other than chosen one is a no-hire. This can be spotted with very narrow skills and specific years of XP. 3. This job is a general description, but with no intent to hire anyone. The purpose here is to earmark funds so the department doesn't lose them. And since interviews are so subjective, departments can fail everyone with no effective oversight this is what's happening. Doesn't matter how good you are - nobody is hired.
  - _the_inflator 3y ago
    I can relate. A very specific profile means it is crafted for a certain person.
_the_inflator 3y ago
First of all, I side with you. Don't get me wrong, it is not that I encourage these practices, I talk about them and I fell pray to them many times when applying to other jobs as well. > That assessment is extremely short-sighted. The reason it will pay off is because other employees will see how you treat the one person. Not really. It is about network not performance. What is going on behind the scenes? Almost every team manager wants to keep his team. So they get at least a normal rating to prevent PIP. HR says, kick X% of the workforce. So what do you do now? That's when magic happens or the least connected dude get kicked out. Also: What is performance anyway? It is fairly subjective and you don't rank and rate 100+ people against each other. Promotion on the other hand is a pyramidal system. 10 promo slots receive 100 applications. How do you decide? Whom does a promo help? In reality, the senior manager pulls the strings. And there can always be creativity in downranking someone or promote someone. > By "officially" do you mean legally? Yes. But again: no system is perfect. There will always be some bending. What I wanted to say is, performance reviews are mostly and at large the only question whether you make the cut or not. This is a 50% to 50% decision. Everything else is BS. How many "10x devs" are there? And same goes for applications: the best preparation, the best interview does never guarantee a job. If on one application 10 awesome devs apply - how do you decide? Take cheating into account, then you will understand that jobs are a number's game.
- aestetix 3y ago
  > What is going on behind the scenes? Almost every team manager wants to keep his team. So they get at least a normal rating to prevent PIP. HR says, kick X% of the workforce. So what do you do now? Hold on, is this during a layoff? What's this about ratings? Why would you need to kick X% of the workforce? Is the company having money issues? It seems that there are quite a few other things to address before you get to an individual employee's performance. > Promotion on the other hand is a pyramidal system. 10 promo slots receive 100 applications. How do you decide? Whom does a promo help? In reality, the senior manager pulls the strings. And there can always be creativity in downranking someone or promote someone. The more I read, this is sounding like a company which is trying to fit itself into some kind of management system they read about in a book, rather than taking an existing system and adjusting it to serve their purposes. Why fire someone if there is nothing bad going on and the company has money? And why promote someone if they have not demonstrated to their manager that they are capable of filling a bigger role?
gardnr 3y ago
I read a bit of sarcasm in parent comment. It seemed they were "telling it how it is" not agreeing with the way it is.

mschuster91 3y ago

> By "officially" do you mean legally? Yes. Union contracts or in the case of public service actual law... basically, the provisions exist to prevent "backdoor deals" or at least make them really expensive. In the end, it's all performance theatre.

pierat 3y ago
When I worked at a public university, that's exactly how that stuff worked. For any job on the portal, had 1 of 3 possibilities. 1. The team actually needed a person. Job is legit. 2. The team knew who they wanted, and opening the job was a formality that was legally required. Anybody other than chosen one is a no-hire. This can be spotted with very narrow skills and specific years of XP. 3. This job is a general description, but with no intent to hire anyone. The purpose here is to earmark funds so the department doesn't lose them. And since interviews are so subjective, departments can fail everyone with no effective oversight this is what's happening. Doesn't matter how good you are - nobody is hired.
- _the_inflator 3y ago
  I can relate. A very specific profile means it is crafted for a certain person.

_the_inflator 3y ago

First of all, I side with you. Don't get me wrong, it is not that I encourage these practices, I talk about them and I fell pray to them many times when applying to other jobs as well. > That assessment is extremely short-sighted. The reason it will pay off is because other employees will see how you treat the one person. Not really. It is about network not performance. What is going on behind the scenes? Almost every team manager wants to keep his team. So they get at least a normal rating to prevent PIP. HR says, kick X% of the workforce. So what do you do now? That's when magic happens or the least connected dude get kicked out. Also: What is performance anyway? It is fairly subjective and you don't rank and rate 100+ people against each other. Promotion on the other hand is a pyramidal system. 10 promo slots receive 100 applications. How do you decide? Whom does a promo help? In reality, the senior manager pulls the strings. And there can always be creativity in downranking someone or promote someone. > By "officially" do you mean legally? Yes. But again: no system is perfect. There will always be some bending. What I wanted to say is, performance reviews are mostly and at large the only question whether you make the cut or not. This is a 50% to 50% decision. Everything else is BS. How many "10x devs" are there? And same goes for applications: the best preparation, the best interview does never guarantee a job. If on one application 10 awesome devs apply - how do you decide? Take cheating into account, then you will understand that jobs are a number's game.

aestetix 3y ago
> What is going on behind the scenes? Almost every team manager wants to keep his team. So they get at least a normal rating to prevent PIP. HR says, kick X% of the workforce. So what do you do now? Hold on, is this during a layoff? What's this about ratings? Why would you need to kick X% of the workforce? Is the company having money issues? It seems that there are quite a few other things to address before you get to an individual employee's performance. > Promotion on the other hand is a pyramidal system. 10 promo slots receive 100 applications. How do you decide? Whom does a promo help? In reality, the senior manager pulls the strings. And there can always be creativity in downranking someone or promote someone. The more I read, this is sounding like a company which is trying to fit itself into some kind of management system they read about in a book, rather than taking an existing system and adjusting it to serve their purposes. Why fire someone if there is nothing bad going on and the company has money? And why promote someone if they have not demonstrated to their manager that they are capable of filling a bigger role?

gardnr 3y ago

I read a bit of sarcasm in parent comment. It seemed they were "telling it how it is" not agreeing with the way it is.