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Years ago http://reliabilityindex.com/ http://reliabilityindex.com/ had a fantastic list of the repair costs of used cars, collected by a UK car warranty insure

Years ago http://reliabilityindex.com/ http://reliabilityindex.com/ had a fantastic list of the repair costs of used cars, collected by a UK car warranty insurer. They took it down for reasons I’m not aware of but it was basically this but for used cars (and Europe-focused). It let you see repair costs per brand, model and generation. There’d sometimes be mad regressions in quality between the old and newer generations of the exact same car - newer isn’t always better! It was also mildly surprising to me how badly cool cars did. Eg Porsches and Audis had insane repair costs, compared to eg similarly sized Volkswagens. I assume this had more to do with the average driving style of Porsche owners than the hardware though - but that’s equally part of the risk math you gotta do when buying a used car! We ended up buying a 12yo used Ford Focus for 3000 euros, from a generation that had miraculously low repair costs according to the site. We had nearly no repairs on it for the 6 years after (and then it suddenly pretty much fell apart, but still). I know nothing about cars and I fully credit the site for making me not screw up. I really miss that site so if anyone knows something similar for used car, please do share!

brailsafe 3y ago
My impression has always been that cool cars are expensive because rich people are willing to pay for comfort and status, and as such they're expensive to repair and likely to need it because the cost goes to superfluous vanity/comfort/speed aspects rather than reliability, which is what sensible people pay for. Buying a used luxury car is often a huge financial mistake, because they're either meant to not be driven, or only meant to be repaired at a high cost paid by someone who doesn't need to care about proportionally little money to them. After all, the most reliable car is no car :) When my 2009 Volkswagen (which was fun to drive sometimes) finally shit the bed, I wasn't in the position to need another or afford one, and I now lived somewhere where there were viable alternatives. Ever since then, when the prospect of considering a new one crosses my mind, I just think about how much of a liability it really was, and without the original constraints of an obtuse commute, I'd just be buying it for hypothetical impromptu road trips, and paying an extremely high cost to do so over time; insurance, gas, lots of repairs and basic maintenance at specific shops, the risk of accidentally hitting someone or getting into an accident, that attrition on my body from not walking enough, parking fees, broken windows, fuuuuuck that Now when I need one, and I do maintain my license, I just rent an arbitrary new car for the week or so I might need it, and that's so far been pretty serviceable except for post-pandemic shortages and demand.
ryanjshaw 3y ago
This is one of the more correct ways to go. The methodology of the article is customer surveys and that is unreliable. There is also an ODB2 manufacturer that collects stats about ODB2 error code frequencies per model and manufacturer (they have an API their hardware uses for up-to-date info), and they correlated that to repair costs per error code to estimate the reliability and maintenance costs of vehicles. I can't remember who it was, though.
arc-in-space 3y ago
> average driving style of Porsche owners Just recently I've had a driver completely ignore me on a crosswalk, which I almost never see happen, and it sure was a Porsche.
germinalphrase 3y ago
“ Porsches and Audis had insane repair costs, compared to eg similarly sized Volkswagens” It’s a known thing that those brands share parts between models, but the price will be substantially different if you buy the “Porsche” part vs the (identical) “VW” part. The price discrepancies don’t necessarily indicate they Audi/Porsche are less reliable.
- skrebbel 3y ago
  > The price discrepancies don’t necessarily indicate they Audi/Porsche are less reliable. No but once you express reliability not as "chance of breakage" but "repair cost", which IMO is the key metric for someone considering a used car, then it does. Especially when you also factor in the behavior of the average Porsche driver on the road, which means more wear and tear.
  - emodendroket 3y ago
    > IMO is the key metric for someone considering a used car I'd say the thing I'm worried about is more how often I find myself not able to use the car.
emodendroket 3y ago
Cool cars are engineered to be cool, not reliable daily drivers. That means putting in whiz-bang features of one kind or another even at the expense of reliability. For instance, suicide doors make a car more complex, with more potential for failure and more expense if it happens. But they're pretty cool, if you're making a crazy sports car.
majani 3y ago
Waste is part and parcel of luxury

brailsafe 3y ago

My impression has always been that cool cars are expensive because rich people are willing to pay for comfort and status, and as such they're expensive to repair and likely to need it because the cost goes to superfluous vanity/comfort/speed aspects rather than reliability, which is what sensible people pay for. Buying a used luxury car is often a huge financial mistake, because they're either meant to not be driven, or only meant to be repaired at a high cost paid by someone who doesn't need to care about proportionally little money to them. After all, the most reliable car is no car :) When my 2009 Volkswagen (which was fun to drive sometimes) finally shit the bed, I wasn't in the position to need another or afford one, and I now lived somewhere where there were viable alternatives. Ever since then, when the prospect of considering a new one crosses my mind, I just think about how much of a liability it really was, and without the original constraints of an obtuse commute, I'd just be buying it for hypothetical impromptu road trips, and paying an extremely high cost to do so over time; insurance, gas, lots of repairs and basic maintenance at specific shops, the risk of accidentally hitting someone or getting into an accident, that attrition on my body from not walking enough, parking fees, broken windows, fuuuuuck that Now when I need one, and I do maintain my license, I just rent an arbitrary new car for the week or so I might need it, and that's so far been pretty serviceable except for post-pandemic shortages and demand.

ryanjshaw 3y ago

This is one of the more correct ways to go. The methodology of the article is customer surveys and that is unreliable. There is also an ODB2 manufacturer that collects stats about ODB2 error code frequencies per model and manufacturer (they have an API their hardware uses for up-to-date info), and they correlated that to repair costs per error code to estimate the reliability and maintenance costs of vehicles. I can't remember who it was, though.

arc-in-space 3y ago

> average driving style of Porsche owners Just recently I've had a driver completely ignore me on a crosswalk, which I almost never see happen, and it sure was a Porsche.

germinalphrase 3y ago

“ Porsches and Audis had insane repair costs, compared to eg similarly sized Volkswagens” It’s a known thing that those brands share parts between models, but the price will be substantially different if you buy the “Porsche” part vs the (identical) “VW” part. The price discrepancies don’t necessarily indicate they Audi/Porsche are less reliable.

skrebbel 3y ago
> The price discrepancies don’t necessarily indicate they Audi/Porsche are less reliable. No but once you express reliability not as "chance of breakage" but "repair cost", which IMO is the key metric for someone considering a used car, then it does. Especially when you also factor in the behavior of the average Porsche driver on the road, which means more wear and tear.
- emodendroket 3y ago
  > IMO is the key metric for someone considering a used car I'd say the thing I'm worried about is more how often I find myself not able to use the car.

emodendroket 3y ago

Cool cars are engineered to be cool, not reliable daily drivers. That means putting in whiz-bang features of one kind or another even at the expense of reliability. For instance, suicide doors make a car more complex, with more potential for failure and more expense if it happens. But they're pretty cool, if you're making a crazy sports car.

majani 3y ago

Waste is part and parcel of luxury