2 ms·

I wonder how small a 6502 or Z80 CPU would be if fabbed on 3nm TSM processes node. Would it be visible with the naked eye?

MenhirMike 3y ago
Some napkin math: https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/a/18250 https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/a/18250 > Let's consider your proposed 8086 done in a 14 nm process. Let's say we do it in CMOS, and maybe even throw in a few extra features, and it takes 100,000 transistors. The die would be very tiny, so unbelievably tiny. You could fit three thousand of them, with room to spare, in a single square millimetre, which is an area likely smaller than the period at the end of this sentence.
- vlovich123 3y ago
  Of course, you’d still need pins for power…
voxadam 3y ago
Does anyone know what the most advanced node a 6502 or Z80 CPU (or 8051 micro) has actually been fabbed on?
- varjag 3y ago
  Z8400 series (still manufactured) are 1500nm process.
  - voxadam 3y ago
    Sure but 8051 is probably the most widely manufactured processor in human history (along their clones and derivatives) and they were originally fabbed using a 3.5 µm (3500 nm) NMOS process (IIRC). What I'd like to know is what the most advanced process/node has been used to manufacture a production 6502, Z80, or 8051 (or other old standard). Has anyone ever fabbed any of the those CPUs/MCUs at 130 nm or better? Though, I will say that I'm amazed that anyone is still mass producing digital products on a 6" (if not smaller) wafer using a node that was invented in the mid 1970s (300 mm wafers are the current standard with the next proposed step being 450 mm). I mention digital because a lot of analog gear (and I think some MEMS) is fabbed using what most of us would consider ancient process nodes.
- datpiff 3y ago
  Here's a 8051 that has been verified on 40nm https://www.cast-inc.com/processors/8051s/r8051xc2 https://www.cast-inc.com/processors/8051s/r8051xc2
datpiff 3y ago
Possibly 180nm, the 6502 was used as a teaching example for the Open Source EDA toolchains https://www.avrfreaks.net/s/topic/a5C3l000000BoJ5EAK/t390647 https://www.avrfreaks.net/s/topic/a5C3l000000BoJ5EAK/t390647 The 8051 is so commonly embedded deep in other ICs that it has very likely been produced on much smaller nodes.

MenhirMike 3y ago

Some napkin math: https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/a/18250 https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/a/18250 > Let's consider your proposed 8086 done in a 14 nm process. Let's say we do it in CMOS, and maybe even throw in a few extra features, and it takes 100,000 transistors. The die would be very tiny, so unbelievably tiny. You could fit three thousand of them, with room to spare, in a single square millimetre, which is an area likely smaller than the period at the end of this sentence.

vlovich123 3y ago
Of course, you’d still need pins for power…

voxadam 3y ago

Does anyone know what the most advanced node a 6502 or Z80 CPU (or 8051 micro) has actually been fabbed on?

varjag 3y ago
Z8400 series (still manufactured) are 1500nm process.
- voxadam 3y ago
  Sure but 8051 is probably the most widely manufactured processor in human history (along their clones and derivatives) and they were originally fabbed using a 3.5 µm (3500 nm) NMOS process (IIRC). What I'd like to know is what the most advanced process/node has been used to manufacture a production 6502, Z80, or 8051 (or other old standard). Has anyone ever fabbed any of the those CPUs/MCUs at 130 nm or better? Though, I will say that I'm amazed that anyone is still mass producing digital products on a 6" (if not smaller) wafer using a node that was invented in the mid 1970s (300 mm wafers are the current standard with the next proposed step being 450 mm). I mention digital because a lot of analog gear (and I think some MEMS) is fabbed using what most of us would consider ancient process nodes.
datpiff 3y ago
Here's a 8051 that has been verified on 40nm https://www.cast-inc.com/processors/8051s/r8051xc2 https://www.cast-inc.com/processors/8051s/r8051xc2

datpiff 3y ago

Possibly 180nm, the 6502 was used as a teaching example for the Open Source EDA toolchains https://www.avrfreaks.net/s/topic/a5C3l000000BoJ5EAK/t390647 https://www.avrfreaks.net/s/topic/a5C3l000000BoJ5EAK/t390647 The 8051 is so commonly embedded deep in other ICs that it has very likely been produced on much smaller nodes.