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> Toyota has been saying that hydrogen is the future which is just ridiculous considering how inefficient and dangerous it is. https://www.caranddriver.com/fea

> Toyota has been saying that hydrogen is the future which is just ridiculous considering how inefficient and dangerous it is. https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a41103863/hydrogen-cars-fcev/ https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a41103863/hydrogen-car... : The three hydrogen cars sold in recent years all have EPA-rated ranges of 300 miles or more, though, like EVs, that range falls substantially at higher speeds. : HFCVs are widely considered as safe as any other car; since the high-pressure tanks are designed to survive even the highest-speed crashes without leaking or breaching. https://www.science.org/content/article/hidden-hydrogen-earth-may-hold-vast-stores-renewable-carbon-free-fuel https://www.science.org/content/article/hidden-hydrogen-eart... : These researchers say water-rock reactions deep within the Earth continuously generate hydrogen, which percolates up through the crust and sometimes accumulates in underground traps. There might be enough natural hydrogen to meet burgeoning global demand for thousands of years, according to a U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) model that was presented in October 2022 at a meeting of the Geological Society of America. And even a US company prospecting for geological hydrogen: http://nh2e.com/ http://nh2e.com/

DoesntMatter22 3y ago
It's an impossible tech. The facilities to dispatch hydro cost millions. Meanwhile you can plug an ev into basically any electric outlet.
- anonymouskimmer 3y ago
  > Meanwhile you can plug an ev into basically any electric outlet. For slow charging, yes. The infrastructure upgrades for even slow charging, much less fast charging, also are very expensive, at least over a land mass as large and sparsely populated as North America. > The facilities to dispatch hydro cost millions https://www.anl.gov/aet/article/argonnes-quest-for-lowercost-hydrogen-at-the-pump https://www.anl.gov/aet/article/argonnes-quest-for-lowercost... : Elgowainy and Reddi expect the design to save refueling station operators up to 30% on their equipment costs by minimizing the compressor’s down time.
  - DoesntMatter22 3y ago
    Wow they'll bring down the cost by 30% so it will still cost... Millions. Rather than the 2k it costs to have a 240v outlet.
    - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
      https://cleantechnica.com/2018/03/07/stop-comparing-number-gas-stations-ev-charging-stations/ https://cleantechnica.com/2018/03/07/stop-comparing-number-g... : Dividing 270 million autos by 1,200,000 pumps = a ratio of 225 autos per available pump. https://www.bcg.com/publications/2019/costs-revving-up-the-grid-for-electric-vehicles https://www.bcg.com/publications/2019/costs-revving-up-the-g... : We found that the representative utility, depending on charging patterns, will need to invest between $1,700 and $5,800 in grid upgrades per electric vehicle (EV) through 2030. So if this and further improvements can get the cost down to about $800k per pump you're at the order of magnitude where they're equivalent, and that's without factoring in the charging stations or home chargers (or the cost of batteries or fuel cells, etcetera, etcetera). https://h2stationmaps.com/costs-and-financing https://h2stationmaps.com/costs-and-financing I'm seeing between $2 and $3.2 million in ~2014 dollars per hydrogen fueling station before this particular efficiency gain is factored in. : As the global demand for hydrogen increases, the economies-of-scale cost reductions will be triggered. NREL projects a cost per station similar to other alternative fuels within 10 years. In addition, lessons learned about design, engineering, and construction will help reduce non-equipment costs.
      - DoesntMatter22 3y ago
        > I'm seeing between $2 and $3.2 million in ~2014 dollars per hydrogen fueling station before this particular efficiency gain is factored in. Yes, as I said. Millions of dollars for a fuel station. When every home owner already has an electric "Fuel station". This is the most comical and impractical way to fueling a car. Take electricity, lose nearly 50% of all your electric capacity spend converting to hydrogen, and then fuel your car. All with a vehicle that has a mini bomb on it, where if it does explode, even if it's extremely unlikely, you are burning with an invisible flame. There is no scenario in which hydrogen will take off. It's like saying you are going to create a competitor to an air plane that is a box with wings. Could that fly? Yes. Does it make any sense? No. Electricity is everywhere and growing in generating capacity rapidly all the while battery prices are dropping dramatically. There is no scenario where Hydrogen catches up. There is no infrastructure, no desire by consumers, no feasible way to implement, no one to realistically invest in the infrastructure. It's just a complete no go.

DoesntMatter22 3y ago

It's an impossible tech. The facilities to dispatch hydro cost millions. Meanwhile you can plug an ev into basically any electric outlet.

anonymouskimmer 3y ago
> Meanwhile you can plug an ev into basically any electric outlet. For slow charging, yes. The infrastructure upgrades for even slow charging, much less fast charging, also are very expensive, at least over a land mass as large and sparsely populated as North America. > The facilities to dispatch hydro cost millions https://www.anl.gov/aet/article/argonnes-quest-for-lowercost-hydrogen-at-the-pump https://www.anl.gov/aet/article/argonnes-quest-for-lowercost... : Elgowainy and Reddi expect the design to save refueling station operators up to 30% on their equipment costs by minimizing the compressor’s down time.
- DoesntMatter22 3y ago
  Wow they'll bring down the cost by 30% so it will still cost... Millions. Rather than the 2k it costs to have a 240v outlet.
  - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
    https://cleantechnica.com/2018/03/07/stop-comparing-number-gas-stations-ev-charging-stations/ https://cleantechnica.com/2018/03/07/stop-comparing-number-g... : Dividing 270 million autos by 1,200,000 pumps = a ratio of 225 autos per available pump. https://www.bcg.com/publications/2019/costs-revving-up-the-grid-for-electric-vehicles https://www.bcg.com/publications/2019/costs-revving-up-the-g... : We found that the representative utility, depending on charging patterns, will need to invest between $1,700 and $5,800 in grid upgrades per electric vehicle (EV) through 2030. So if this and further improvements can get the cost down to about $800k per pump you're at the order of magnitude where they're equivalent, and that's without factoring in the charging stations or home chargers (or the cost of batteries or fuel cells, etcetera, etcetera). https://h2stationmaps.com/costs-and-financing https://h2stationmaps.com/costs-and-financing I'm seeing between $2 and $3.2 million in ~2014 dollars per hydrogen fueling station before this particular efficiency gain is factored in. : As the global demand for hydrogen increases, the economies-of-scale cost reductions will be triggered. NREL projects a cost per station similar to other alternative fuels within 10 years. In addition, lessons learned about design, engineering, and construction will help reduce non-equipment costs.
    - DoesntMatter22 3y ago
      > I'm seeing between $2 and $3.2 million in ~2014 dollars per hydrogen fueling station before this particular efficiency gain is factored in. Yes, as I said. Millions of dollars for a fuel station. When every home owner already has an electric "Fuel station". This is the most comical and impractical way to fueling a car. Take electricity, lose nearly 50% of all your electric capacity spend converting to hydrogen, and then fuel your car. All with a vehicle that has a mini bomb on it, where if it does explode, even if it's extremely unlikely, you are burning with an invisible flame. There is no scenario in which hydrogen will take off. It's like saying you are going to create a competitor to an air plane that is a box with wings. Could that fly? Yes. Does it make any sense? No. Electricity is everywhere and growing in generating capacity rapidly all the while battery prices are dropping dramatically. There is no scenario where Hydrogen catches up. There is no infrastructure, no desire by consumers, no feasible way to implement, no one to realistically invest in the infrastructure. It's just a complete no go.