4 ms·

There is no "gun show loophole". It's not a thing. Really. The same regulations apply to gun sales at gun shows as anywhere else. Yes, private citizens can se

There is no "gun show loophole". It's not a thing. Really. The same regulations apply to gun sales at gun shows as anywhere else. Yes, private citizens can sell guns at gun shows without performing a background check. They can also sell guns without performing a background check in Grand Canyon National Park, on a boat in the middle of Lake Michigan, or in the parking lot of the local McDonalds. "Gun shows" have nothing to do with it. Gun dealers at gun shows likewise have to perform the same check that they perform at their normal place of business. Again, the fact that it is a gun show changes nothing. You should try to remember who told you that the "gun show loophole" is actually a thing, and resolve to trust no further information from that source. To put it bluntly: they lied to you.

alistairSH 3y ago
I’m aware. It’s a dumb name, but it doesn’t change that in most states, a private individual can sell/buy a gun without much/any paperwork. We can call it “private individual sale loophole” if you prefer, same damn thing - that’s the loophole - getting out of background checks and other paperwork because it’s a private sale (and not passing through an FFL). And in any gun control conversation, most people know exactly what’s meant by the term - I didn’t pick the name (and have no idea who did).
- Turing_Machine 3y ago
  It's not a "dumb name". It is an intentionally deceptive name.
  - alistairSH 3y ago
    Source? (I haven’t been able to find the first use of the term) My understanding is the term came into use because it was common for unlicensed sellers to set up tables at gun shows. The law isnt about gun shows specifically, but gun shows were a common way for unlicensed sellers and buyers seeking to avoid background checks to do business.
    - Turing_Machine 3y ago
      "Source" for what? If someone who purports to be against eating fish (a legal activity anywhere) starts going off about the "Catholic Church fish fry loophole", there's no need for a source to conclude that the person is almost certainly trying to hurt the Catholic Church, rather than protecting fish per se. Your understanding is wrong, by the way. If you sell more than a few guns per year (where "a few" is up to the ATF agent's discretion), the ATF is going to conclude that you are an unlicensed dealer and you will go to jail for a very long time (edit: five years in prison, $250,000 fine, or both).
      - alistairSH 3y ago
        A source for where the word was initially used as an intentionally deceptive term. It appears the term pre-dates the Brady Act, so it also pre-dates my political awareness (I was in high school in the early 90s). Here's a documented case of the gun show loophole in practice at a gun show as recently as 2019... https://gunsandamerica.org/story/19/01/29/what-the-so-called-gun-show-loophole-really-looks-like/ https://gunsandamerica.org/story/19/01/29/what-the-so-called... This practice was closed by the Safer Communities Act in 2022. But, in the majority of states, this doesn't prevent a buyer from legally purchasing a gun from a private seller. Like I said above, it's a stupid name, especially given the changes in 2022, and I'm happy to call it "private sale legal quirk" or whatever you want. Changing the common name doesn't change the underlying law - private sales are unregulated at the federal level - and that (IMO) is silly - either the sale of guns should be regulated or it shouldn't (obviously I fall on the regulated side).
        alistairSH 3y ago
        And just a reminder, it wasn't me who first mentioned gun shows in this thread. That was something from a thro-away account.

alistairSH 3y ago

I’m aware. It’s a dumb name, but it doesn’t change that in most states, a private individual can sell/buy a gun without much/any paperwork. We can call it “private individual sale loophole” if you prefer, same damn thing - that’s the loophole - getting out of background checks and other paperwork because it’s a private sale (and not passing through an FFL). And in any gun control conversation, most people know exactly what’s meant by the term - I didn’t pick the name (and have no idea who did).

Turing_Machine 3y ago
It's not a "dumb name". It is an intentionally deceptive name.
- alistairSH 3y ago
  Source? (I haven’t been able to find the first use of the term) My understanding is the term came into use because it was common for unlicensed sellers to set up tables at gun shows. The law isnt about gun shows specifically, but gun shows were a common way for unlicensed sellers and buyers seeking to avoid background checks to do business.
  - Turing_Machine 3y ago
    "Source" for what? If someone who purports to be against eating fish (a legal activity anywhere) starts going off about the "Catholic Church fish fry loophole", there's no need for a source to conclude that the person is almost certainly trying to hurt the Catholic Church, rather than protecting fish per se. Your understanding is wrong, by the way. If you sell more than a few guns per year (where "a few" is up to the ATF agent's discretion), the ATF is going to conclude that you are an unlicensed dealer and you will go to jail for a very long time (edit: five years in prison, $250,000 fine, or both).
    - alistairSH 3y ago
      A source for where the word was initially used as an intentionally deceptive term. It appears the term pre-dates the Brady Act, so it also pre-dates my political awareness (I was in high school in the early 90s). Here's a documented case of the gun show loophole in practice at a gun show as recently as 2019... https://gunsandamerica.org/story/19/01/29/what-the-so-called-gun-show-loophole-really-looks-like/ https://gunsandamerica.org/story/19/01/29/what-the-so-called... This practice was closed by the Safer Communities Act in 2022. But, in the majority of states, this doesn't prevent a buyer from legally purchasing a gun from a private seller. Like I said above, it's a stupid name, especially given the changes in 2022, and I'm happy to call it "private sale legal quirk" or whatever you want. Changing the common name doesn't change the underlying law - private sales are unregulated at the federal level - and that (IMO) is silly - either the sale of guns should be regulated or it shouldn't (obviously I fall on the regulated side).
      - alistairSH 3y ago
        And just a reminder, it wasn't me who first mentioned gun shows in this thread. That was something from a thro-away account.