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I am suggesting that they can't. They have a serious innovation problem. A lot of their designs started out stolen or cloned from the West. They also don't have

by baz00 3y ago

I am suggesting that they can't. They have a serious innovation problem. A lot of their designs started out stolen or cloned from the West. They also don't have anything like ASML available to them. And to get this out SMIC ripped off TSMC intellectual property. I'm not saying they won't deliver useful silicon but they won't be delivering comparable silicon. And it'll be under trade embargo no doubt due to the IP issues so they will have a very limited market to scale into. This happened before (GDR) and the products were never competitive. I think the best thing they have done though is kick out compatible ATmega parts and the STM32 parts. They're really killing it there.

meepmorp 3y ago
> A lot of their designs started out stolen or cloned from the West IIRC, Loongson was a straight copy of MIPS with the names changed (in the first few iterations, at least).
xcv123 3y ago
> And it'll be under trade embargo no doubt due to the IP issues so they will have a very limited market to scale into. This was created for their own domestic market. China's goal is achieve independence of foreign technology. With 1.3 billion people they have a very large market.
FooBarWidget 3y ago
> A lot of their designs started out stolen or cloned from the West This is also called learning by doing. This is how skill and expertise is most efficiently developed in the very beginning. This trope of assuming that copying is inherently valueless or devoid of creativity or innovation is simply wrong, and comes from an implicit assumption of superiority of the self. They may not innovate as much as you expect now. But they are building a foundation for future innovation. Also: Huawei is still leader in 5G technology, with the best products. You should look at their patents, they own the majority of 5G patents.
pantalaimon 3y ago
> I think the best thing they have done though is kick out compatible ATmega parts and the STM32 parts. They're really killing it there. GigaDevice and WCH have completely new MCUs now based on RISC-V. They keep the STM32 peripheral register interface for easy driver re-use, but they are well beyond mere copies these days. https://wch-ic.com/products/categories/47.html?pid=5 https://wch-ic.com/products/categories/47.html?pid=5 https://www.gigadevice.com/product/mcu https://www.gigadevice.com/product/mcu

by baz00 3y ago

meepmorp 3y ago

> A lot of their designs started out stolen or cloned from the West IIRC, Loongson was a straight copy of MIPS with the names changed (in the first few iterations, at least).

xcv123 3y ago

> And it'll be under trade embargo no doubt due to the IP issues so they will have a very limited market to scale into. This was created for their own domestic market. China's goal is achieve independence of foreign technology. With 1.3 billion people they have a very large market.

FooBarWidget 3y ago

> A lot of their designs started out stolen or cloned from the West This is also called learning by doing. This is how skill and expertise is most efficiently developed in the very beginning. This trope of assuming that copying is inherently valueless or devoid of creativity or innovation is simply wrong, and comes from an implicit assumption of superiority of the self. They may not innovate as much as you expect now. But they are building a foundation for future innovation. Also: Huawei is still leader in 5G technology, with the best products. You should look at their patents, they own the majority of 5G patents.

pantalaimon 3y ago

> I think the best thing they have done though is kick out compatible ATmega parts and the STM32 parts. They're really killing it there. GigaDevice and WCH have completely new MCUs now based on RISC-V. They keep the STM32 peripheral register interface for easy driver re-use, but they are well beyond mere copies these days. https://wch-ic.com/products/categories/47.html?pid=5 https://wch-ic.com/products/categories/47.html?pid=5 https://www.gigadevice.com/product/mcu https://www.gigadevice.com/product/mcu