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I'm not sure if this is true, but JWZ, "the world's foremost expert on screen savers on Unix-like operating systems", says that "Wayland does not support screen

I'm not sure if this is true, but JWZ, "the world's foremost expert on screen savers on Unix-like operating systems", says that "Wayland does not support screen savers: it does not have any provision that allows screen savers to even exist in any meaningful way. If you value screen savers, that's kind of a problem. " [0] *caution*: links from HN to jwz's blog do, or did show an nsfw picture [0] https://www.jwz.org/blog/2023/09/wayland-and-screen-savers/ https://www.jwz.org/blog/2023/09/wayland-and-screen-savers/

tristan957 3y ago
Do people even use screensavers anymore?
- kuhsaft 3y ago
  Not for any “purposeful” use. Screensavers were used to prevent burn-in. So, unless you’re using a CRT, it’s a waste of power. OLED displays usually have built-in burn-in protection nowadays as well. Again, it is more energy efficient to power off the display.
- bzzzt 3y ago
  Apple seems to think so. It's the first 'improvement' mentioned on the macOS Sonoma homepage. https://www.apple.com/macos/sonoma/ https://www.apple.com/macos/sonoma/
forgotpwd16 3y ago
A relevant protocol (https://wayland.app/protocols/ext-session-lock-v1 https://wayland.app/protocols/ext-session-lock-v1) has been introduced nearly two years ago.
- franga2000 3y ago
  This looks a lot more like a lock screen than a screensaver. A screensaver could be implemented using this API, but it would replace the DE-native lock screen and need to implement everything it used to do.
  - aidenn0 3y ago
    Xscreensaver is both a lock-screen and a screensaver, so for jwz, that should be fine. [edit] It is missing what jwz calls the "blank" state (i.e. screensaver showing, but no password required to unlock).
- sillywalk 3y ago
  I quote jwz's reply: >Well, ext-session-lock-v1 is itself a non-starter. There is no sane reason to perpetuate the old model where screen savers have to read passwords and talk to PAM. Authentication belongs in the display manager. It's already there since they have already implemented screen locking. Not using that same code path would be madness.
  - gizmo686 3y ago
    So, it is less that "Wayland does not support screensavers", and more of "Wayland supports screensavers that work like they did under X. But the way things worked under X is so stupid that it is not worth considering".
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - sillywalk 3y ago
      Not knowing anything about Wayland, I feel more than qualified to respond. :) Under X11, a screen locker wasn't 'secure' in the same way as a login manager. If the screen-locker/screen saver crashed, the user is still logged on. If the login-manager crashes, nobody is logged on, and it probably just restarts. [0] I think the jist of the article on jwz I linked is that, under X11 anybody can write a screen saver, it doesn't matter what window manager. Under Wayland, the logic of when to start & make secure a screensaver (as opposed to screen lock) would be in in the display-manager or compositer, and there isn't just one of those, and attempting to get all of them to get together and standardize it would be a PITA. [0] https://www.jwz.org/xscreensaver/toolkits.html https://www.jwz.org/xscreensaver/toolkits.html [1] https://www.jwz.org/blog/2023/09/wayland-and-screen-savers/ https://www.jwz.org/blog/2023/09/wayland-and-screen-savers/ [2] https://www.jwz.org/xscreensaver/man1.html#2 https://www.jwz.org/xscreensaver/man1.html#2
suprjami 3y ago
I don't care either way about Wayland or Xorg, I just want something that works. However, I haven't used a screensaver in so long I can't even remember. At least 20 years. I just want the monitor to switch off when it's not in use. Sorry Jamie, nobody values screen savers anymore.
- winternewt 3y ago
  I need a lock screen though. So far I haven't even been able to get a graphical display manager / login screen working on Wayland.

tristan957 3y ago

Do people even use screensavers anymore?

kuhsaft 3y ago
Not for any “purposeful” use. Screensavers were used to prevent burn-in. So, unless you’re using a CRT, it’s a waste of power. OLED displays usually have built-in burn-in protection nowadays as well. Again, it is more energy efficient to power off the display.
bzzzt 3y ago
Apple seems to think so. It's the first 'improvement' mentioned on the macOS Sonoma homepage. https://www.apple.com/macos/sonoma/ https://www.apple.com/macos/sonoma/

forgotpwd16 3y ago

A relevant protocol (https://wayland.app/protocols/ext-session-lock-v1 https://wayland.app/protocols/ext-session-lock-v1) has been introduced nearly two years ago.

franga2000 3y ago
This looks a lot more like a lock screen than a screensaver. A screensaver could be implemented using this API, but it would replace the DE-native lock screen and need to implement everything it used to do.
- aidenn0 3y ago
  Xscreensaver is both a lock-screen and a screensaver, so for jwz, that should be fine. [edit] It is missing what jwz calls the "blank" state (i.e. screensaver showing, but no password required to unlock).
sillywalk 3y ago
I quote jwz's reply: >Well, ext-session-lock-v1 is itself a non-starter. There is no sane reason to perpetuate the old model where screen savers have to read passwords and talk to PAM. Authentication belongs in the display manager. It's already there since they have already implemented screen locking. Not using that same code path would be madness.
- gizmo686 3y ago
  So, it is less that "Wayland does not support screensavers", and more of "Wayland supports screensavers that work like they did under X. But the way things worked under X is so stupid that it is not worth considering".
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - sillywalk 3y ago
    Not knowing anything about Wayland, I feel more than qualified to respond. :) Under X11, a screen locker wasn't 'secure' in the same way as a login manager. If the screen-locker/screen saver crashed, the user is still logged on. If the login-manager crashes, nobody is logged on, and it probably just restarts. [0] I think the jist of the article on jwz I linked is that, under X11 anybody can write a screen saver, it doesn't matter what window manager. Under Wayland, the logic of when to start & make secure a screensaver (as opposed to screen lock) would be in in the display-manager or compositer, and there isn't just one of those, and attempting to get all of them to get together and standardize it would be a PITA. [0] https://www.jwz.org/xscreensaver/toolkits.html https://www.jwz.org/xscreensaver/toolkits.html [1] https://www.jwz.org/blog/2023/09/wayland-and-screen-savers/ https://www.jwz.org/blog/2023/09/wayland-and-screen-savers/ [2] https://www.jwz.org/xscreensaver/man1.html#2 https://www.jwz.org/xscreensaver/man1.html#2

suprjami 3y ago

I don't care either way about Wayland or Xorg, I just want something that works. However, I haven't used a screensaver in so long I can't even remember. At least 20 years. I just want the monitor to switch off when it's not in use. Sorry Jamie, nobody values screen savers anymore.

winternewt 3y ago
I need a lock screen though. So far I haven't even been able to get a graphical display manager / login screen working on Wayland.