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If you want the other side, the perception on the right is that we have been compromising on guns since the 80's but every compromise is the next loophole to be

If you want the other side, the perception on the right is that we have been compromising on guns since the 80's but every compromise is the next loophole to be closed. See the "Gunshow loophole" which the right perceives as one of those compromises.

alistairSH 3y ago
But that loophole still exists - the right refuses to close it - so I'm confused by what you mean? And every attempt at gun control has been fought and challenged by the right (bump stock bans being a recent example). Despite some state-level regulation, we're near the top of the list in death-by-gun. And the political right seems largely ok with this, which is baffling. Parts of Latin America are worse, but they have massive drug crime issues and often failing economics and governments. Greenland has lots of gun suicides. The US has all of the above.
- Turing_Machine 3y ago
  There is no "gun show loophole". It's not a thing. Really. The same regulations apply to gun sales at gun shows as anywhere else. Yes, private citizens can sell guns at gun shows without performing a background check. They can also sell guns without performing a background check in Grand Canyon National Park, on a boat in the middle of Lake Michigan, or in the parking lot of the local McDonalds. "Gun shows" have nothing to do with it. Gun dealers at gun shows likewise have to perform the same check that they perform at their normal place of business. Again, the fact that it is a gun show changes nothing. You should try to remember who told you that the "gun show loophole" is actually a thing, and resolve to trust no further information from that source. To put it bluntly: they lied to you.
  - alistairSH 3y ago
    I’m aware. It’s a dumb name, but it doesn’t change that in most states, a private individual can sell/buy a gun without much/any paperwork. We can call it “private individual sale loophole” if you prefer, same damn thing - that’s the loophole - getting out of background checks and other paperwork because it’s a private sale (and not passing through an FFL). And in any gun control conversation, most people know exactly what’s meant by the term - I didn’t pick the name (and have no idea who did).
    - Turing_Machine 3y ago
      It's not a "dumb name". It is an intentionally deceptive name.
      - alistairSH 3y ago
        Source? (I haven’t been able to find the first use of the term) My understanding is the term came into use because it was common for unlicensed sellers to set up tables at gun shows. The law isnt about gun shows specifically, but gun shows were a common way for unlicensed sellers and buyers seeking to avoid background checks to do business.
        Turing_Machine 3y ago
        "Source" for what? If someone who purports to be against eating fish (a legal activity anywhere) starts going off about the "Catholic Church fish fry loophole", there's no need for a source to conclude that the person is almost certainly trying to hurt the Catholic Church, rather than protecting fish per se. Your understanding is wrong, by the way. If you sell more than a few guns per year (where "a few" is up to the ATF agent's discretion), the ATF is going to conclude that you are an unlicensed dealer and you will go to jail for a very long time (edit: five years in prison, $250,000 fine, or both).
        alistairSH 3y ago
        A source for where the word was initially used as an intentionally deceptive term. It appears the term pre-dates the Brady Act, so it also pre-dates my political awareness (I was in high school in the early 90s). Here's a documented case of the gun show loophole in practice at a gun show as recently as 2019... https://gunsandamerica.org/story/19/01/29/what-the-so-called-gun-show-loophole-really-looks-like/ https://gunsandamerica.org/story/19/01/29/what-the-so-called... This practice was closed by the Safer Communities Act in 2022. But, in the majority of states, this doesn't prevent a buyer from legally purchasing a gun from a private seller. Like I said above, it's a stupid name, especially given the changes in 2022, and I'm happy to call it "private sale legal quirk" or whatever you want. Changing the common name doesn't change the underlying law - private sales are unregulated at the federal level - and that (IMO) is silly - either the sale of guns should be regulated or it shouldn't (obviously I fall on the regulated side).
PrimeMcFly 3y ago
So then it's just a case of the right being mistaken and thinking they compromised when they didn't.

alistairSH 3y ago

But that loophole still exists - the right refuses to close it - so I'm confused by what you mean? And every attempt at gun control has been fought and challenged by the right (bump stock bans being a recent example). Despite some state-level regulation, we're near the top of the list in death-by-gun. And the political right seems largely ok with this, which is baffling. Parts of Latin America are worse, but they have massive drug crime issues and often failing economics and governments. Greenland has lots of gun suicides. The US has all of the above.

Turing_Machine 3y ago
There is no "gun show loophole". It's not a thing. Really. The same regulations apply to gun sales at gun shows as anywhere else. Yes, private citizens can sell guns at gun shows without performing a background check. They can also sell guns without performing a background check in Grand Canyon National Park, on a boat in the middle of Lake Michigan, or in the parking lot of the local McDonalds. "Gun shows" have nothing to do with it. Gun dealers at gun shows likewise have to perform the same check that they perform at their normal place of business. Again, the fact that it is a gun show changes nothing. You should try to remember who told you that the "gun show loophole" is actually a thing, and resolve to trust no further information from that source. To put it bluntly: they lied to you.
- alistairSH 3y ago
  I’m aware. It’s a dumb name, but it doesn’t change that in most states, a private individual can sell/buy a gun without much/any paperwork. We can call it “private individual sale loophole” if you prefer, same damn thing - that’s the loophole - getting out of background checks and other paperwork because it’s a private sale (and not passing through an FFL). And in any gun control conversation, most people know exactly what’s meant by the term - I didn’t pick the name (and have no idea who did).
  - Turing_Machine 3y ago
    It's not a "dumb name". It is an intentionally deceptive name.
    - alistairSH 3y ago
      Source? (I haven’t been able to find the first use of the term) My understanding is the term came into use because it was common for unlicensed sellers to set up tables at gun shows. The law isnt about gun shows specifically, but gun shows were a common way for unlicensed sellers and buyers seeking to avoid background checks to do business.
      - Turing_Machine 3y ago
        "Source" for what? If someone who purports to be against eating fish (a legal activity anywhere) starts going off about the "Catholic Church fish fry loophole", there's no need for a source to conclude that the person is almost certainly trying to hurt the Catholic Church, rather than protecting fish per se. Your understanding is wrong, by the way. If you sell more than a few guns per year (where "a few" is up to the ATF agent's discretion), the ATF is going to conclude that you are an unlicensed dealer and you will go to jail for a very long time (edit: five years in prison, $250,000 fine, or both).
        alistairSH 3y ago
        A source for where the word was initially used as an intentionally deceptive term. It appears the term pre-dates the Brady Act, so it also pre-dates my political awareness (I was in high school in the early 90s). Here's a documented case of the gun show loophole in practice at a gun show as recently as 2019... https://gunsandamerica.org/story/19/01/29/what-the-so-called-gun-show-loophole-really-looks-like/ https://gunsandamerica.org/story/19/01/29/what-the-so-called... This practice was closed by the Safer Communities Act in 2022. But, in the majority of states, this doesn't prevent a buyer from legally purchasing a gun from a private seller. Like I said above, it's a stupid name, especially given the changes in 2022, and I'm happy to call it "private sale legal quirk" or whatever you want. Changing the common name doesn't change the underlying law - private sales are unregulated at the federal level - and that (IMO) is silly - either the sale of guns should be regulated or it shouldn't (obviously I fall on the regulated side).

PrimeMcFly 3y ago

So then it's just a case of the right being mistaken and thinking they compromised when they didn't.