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This article seems quite similar to the one posted two days ago on HN about Brother printers - they're great because they have very low innovation. The top car

by jerlam 3y ago

This article seems quite similar to the one posted two days ago on HN about Brother printers - they're great because they have very low innovation. The top car brands - Lexus/Toyota, Acura/Honda, Subaru, and Mazda - have been widely scolded for not trying very hard to build EVs and would rather refine the same exact ICE cars for decades.

eweise 3y ago
Subaru and Mazda are fairly small so I wouldn't expect a lot of R&D from them. Toyota has been really successful with hybrid which to me, seem like the best solution until EV range cost, and infrastructure improve.
- tomatotomato37 3y ago
  Those two are weird; they use to have a lot of out-there designs (boxers & rotaries respectively) but seem to have slowed down on the innovation since then.
  - fomine3 3y ago
    Not much similar. Mazda is known for new engine architecture since 2010s. Subaru is known for stucked at boxer architecture.
- kyle_grove 3y ago
  Mazda engine R&D is seemingly quite impressive: the SkyActive X engine is an unusual ICE gasoline engine that takes ideas from diesel, with greater fuel efficiency and horsepower.
solardev 3y ago
Subaru finally made an EV (the Solterra). I love the way it drives, but it's more expensive (at least at my dealer) than an entry level Tesla. I'd trust Subaru way more than Tesla though.
- BeetleB 3y ago
  The Solterra is actually manufactured by Toyota https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_bZ4X https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_bZ4X
  - solardev 3y ago
    But it's jointly developed by both Toyota and Subaru (similar to how they did the Toyota 86/Subaru BRZ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_86 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_86): https://ts2.space/en/is-solterra-toyota-or-subaru/#gsc.tab=0 https://ts2.space/en/is-solterra-toyota-or-subaru/#gsc.tab=0 https://www.torquenews.com/1084/why-subaru-takes-credit-new-solterra-and-toyota-bz4x-evs-top-safety-scores https://www.torquenews.com/1084/why-subaru-takes-credit-new-... And Subaru might pull away from that partnership after early models had wheels falling off: https://www.torquenews.com/1084/why-it-s-smart-subaru-pull-away-toyota-now-and-make-its-own-evs https://www.torquenews.com/1084/why-it-s-smart-subaru-pull-a... It's all kinda incestuous anyway. Toyota owns 20% of Subaru already: https://www.torquenews.com/1084/subaru-officially-joins-toyota-group-what-it-means-new-outback-and-forester-models https://www.torquenews.com/1084/subaru-officially-joins-toyo...
- jdthedisciple 3y ago
  > I'd trust Subaru way more than Tesla though. Is it because "Elon bad" or you have some technical reasons?
  - solardev 3y ago
    Mostly because they have a history of dishonesty (like with self driving) and poor build quality. Also I hate their UX, especially that touch screen (I'm old and prefer physical dials and buttons and doorknobs). Don't really want a cool car, just a stable (mechanical) platform for an everyday electric driver with AWD and good clearance. But Musk doesn't help matters either. I used to really respect him (and still grudingly do, mostly for SpaceX and Starlink), but he seems more and more unhinged over the years. Maybe if he were more hands off Tesla like he was with Starlink? To me Tesla just feels like an edgy image company rather than an old fashioned car company like Subaru. I don't want that whole baggage or culture, I just want a car. Kudos to Tesla for jumpstarting EVs, but I'd much rather go with the stale Japanese option.

by jerlam 3y ago

eweise 3y ago

Subaru and Mazda are fairly small so I wouldn't expect a lot of R&D from them. Toyota has been really successful with hybrid which to me, seem like the best solution until EV range cost, and infrastructure improve.

tomatotomato37 3y ago
Those two are weird; they use to have a lot of out-there designs (boxers & rotaries respectively) but seem to have slowed down on the innovation since then.
- fomine3 3y ago
  Not much similar. Mazda is known for new engine architecture since 2010s. Subaru is known for stucked at boxer architecture.
kyle_grove 3y ago
Mazda engine R&D is seemingly quite impressive: the SkyActive X engine is an unusual ICE gasoline engine that takes ideas from diesel, with greater fuel efficiency and horsepower.

solardev 3y ago

Subaru finally made an EV (the Solterra). I love the way it drives, but it's more expensive (at least at my dealer) than an entry level Tesla. I'd trust Subaru way more than Tesla though.

BeetleB 3y ago
The Solterra is actually manufactured by Toyota https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_bZ4X https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_bZ4X
- solardev 3y ago
  But it's jointly developed by both Toyota and Subaru (similar to how they did the Toyota 86/Subaru BRZ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_86 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_86): https://ts2.space/en/is-solterra-toyota-or-subaru/#gsc.tab=0 https://ts2.space/en/is-solterra-toyota-or-subaru/#gsc.tab=0 https://www.torquenews.com/1084/why-subaru-takes-credit-new-solterra-and-toyota-bz4x-evs-top-safety-scores https://www.torquenews.com/1084/why-subaru-takes-credit-new-... And Subaru might pull away from that partnership after early models had wheels falling off: https://www.torquenews.com/1084/why-it-s-smart-subaru-pull-away-toyota-now-and-make-its-own-evs https://www.torquenews.com/1084/why-it-s-smart-subaru-pull-a... It's all kinda incestuous anyway. Toyota owns 20% of Subaru already: https://www.torquenews.com/1084/subaru-officially-joins-toyota-group-what-it-means-new-outback-and-forester-models https://www.torquenews.com/1084/subaru-officially-joins-toyo...
jdthedisciple 3y ago
> I'd trust Subaru way more than Tesla though. Is it because "Elon bad" or you have some technical reasons?
- solardev 3y ago
  Mostly because they have a history of dishonesty (like with self driving) and poor build quality. Also I hate their UX, especially that touch screen (I'm old and prefer physical dials and buttons and doorknobs). Don't really want a cool car, just a stable (mechanical) platform for an everyday electric driver with AWD and good clearance. But Musk doesn't help matters either. I used to really respect him (and still grudingly do, mostly for SpaceX and Starlink), but he seems more and more unhinged over the years. Maybe if he were more hands off Tesla like he was with Starlink? To me Tesla just feels like an edgy image company rather than an old fashioned car company like Subaru. I don't want that whole baggage or culture, I just want a car. Kudos to Tesla for jumpstarting EVs, but I'd much rather go with the stale Japanese option.