4 ms·

Every fiat payment is backed by similar energy and resource usage by the standing military (or dependence on another nation's via other exchange) that gives it

Every fiat payment is backed by similar energy and resource usage by the standing military (or dependence on another nation's via other exchange) that gives it worth and stability. Bitcoin is laudable in that it's energy and resource use is at least non-violent.

abdullahkhalids 3y ago
These days cryptocurrency transactions are also backed by standing military and police, since fraudulent cryptocurrency transactions is a crime now in many countries [1]. > A Serbian man has been extradited to the United States, where he faces charges in two separate federal indictments in the Northern District of Texas and Eastern District of New York for his alleged participation in coordinated cryptocurrency and binary options schemes. [1] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/leader-70m-cryptocurrency-and-binary-options-fraud-schemes-extradited-us https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/leader-70m-cryptocurrency-and...
abosley 3y ago
I'm experiencing 4090 pricing violence.
chollida1 3y ago
> Every fiat payment is backed by similar energy and resource usage by the standing military (or dependence on another nation's via other exchange) that gives it worth and stability This has always struck me as a terrible rebuttal. This essentially means that the only reason that countries have armies is that they have a currency, which is obviously false, thus destroying the argument. I mean, France, doesn't have their own currency but still has a standing army.
danShumway 3y ago
Bitcoin is as entangled in the military as any other currency. It only works with a functioning Internet, functioning power grid, with the ability to buy computer parts with regular currency, and it's regularly valued in fiat currency. So the idea that the military is an extrinsic cost that only applies to fiat currency is a complete myth, Bitcoin relies on the government. And even ignoring the fact that Bitcoin is regulated and there are government policies and laws dictating how exchanges work and it is seen by a large portion of the community as a speculative asset alongside traditional assets like stocks and bonds, the truth is that Bitcoin would collapse if society collapsed because global connectivity in order to synchronize the blockchain with everybody using the currency is a literal requirement of the technology. It isn't a federated system, there is one database that gets replicated everywhere. And that global connectivity and ability to replicate the database and to connect to miners is enforced by a standing military. It's especially silly to look at Bitcoin as independent from military presence given that the complaint is that Bitcoin uses a ton of power and water, and control of energy sources and access to natural resources is historically a giant influential factor in US foreign policy.
- superkuh 3y ago
  And yet bitcoin works just fine in countries where the central government collapses and their currency is worthless. In fact, that's one of it's more common uses. This is very unlike a fiat currency. The USA could be gone and bitcoin would still work. China did ban it and mining and it still works. The idea that it is "as entangled in the military as any other currency" is obviously untrue.
  - danShumway 3y ago
    > The USA could be gone and bitcoin would still work. If the USA vanished tomorrow, the global Internet would collapse, and Bitcoin in fact would not still work. You very literally cannot transact without an Internet connection, the thing that is maintained by... governments and the USD and fiat currency. Also: > And yet bitcoin works just fine in countries where the central government collapses and their currency is worthless. Does it? Bitcoin is terrible at regular transactions, to the point where I've got another Bitcoin proponent further up the thread complaining to me that I shouldn't be comparing Bitcoin to a currency (I wish y'all would get your story straight on that by the way). One big problem is that the price fluctuates way too much and the community is actively hostile to attempts to stabilize the price. Transaction fees are another issue; the best method that's been proposed to minimize transaction fees is to take transactions off of the blockchain and then consolidate them. Which sure, honestly I agree with that strategy, but it should give people pause that making a currency usable involves avoiding the underlying technology behind it. And so you bring up countries like China, but Bitcoin really hasn't thrived in China. Yeah, some people use it, but restricting it for everyday purchases has pretty much worked out the way the government hoped. The coin is not really that censorship resistant, you end up kind of needing to go through the same money-laundering steps that you'd use anyway to get it into a usable currency. But all of that is kind of besides the point, because once again, in a world with an unstable power grid or disrupted Internet, the currency stops functioning. That is not a good disaster currency. But go ahead, prove me wrong. Go set up a Bitcoin mine in Gaza. To the extent that Bitcoin has been able to function in any collapsed region, it's only because other countries like the US, China, EU, etc maintain Internet connections to collapsed regions that users can piggyback on. And those Internet connections are maintained using military and national resources.

abdullahkhalids 3y ago

These days cryptocurrency transactions are also backed by standing military and police, since fraudulent cryptocurrency transactions is a crime now in many countries [1]. > A Serbian man has been extradited to the United States, where he faces charges in two separate federal indictments in the Northern District of Texas and Eastern District of New York for his alleged participation in coordinated cryptocurrency and binary options schemes. [1] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/leader-70m-cryptocurrency-and-binary-options-fraud-schemes-extradited-us https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/leader-70m-cryptocurrency-and...

abosley 3y ago

I'm experiencing 4090 pricing violence.

chollida1 3y ago

> Every fiat payment is backed by similar energy and resource usage by the standing military (or dependence on another nation's via other exchange) that gives it worth and stability This has always struck me as a terrible rebuttal. This essentially means that the only reason that countries have armies is that they have a currency, which is obviously false, thus destroying the argument. I mean, France, doesn't have their own currency but still has a standing army.

danShumway 3y ago

Bitcoin is as entangled in the military as any other currency. It only works with a functioning Internet, functioning power grid, with the ability to buy computer parts with regular currency, and it's regularly valued in fiat currency. So the idea that the military is an extrinsic cost that only applies to fiat currency is a complete myth, Bitcoin relies on the government. And even ignoring the fact that Bitcoin is regulated and there are government policies and laws dictating how exchanges work and it is seen by a large portion of the community as a speculative asset alongside traditional assets like stocks and bonds, the truth is that Bitcoin would collapse if society collapsed because global connectivity in order to synchronize the blockchain with everybody using the currency is a literal requirement of the technology. It isn't a federated system, there is one database that gets replicated everywhere. And that global connectivity and ability to replicate the database and to connect to miners is enforced by a standing military. It's especially silly to look at Bitcoin as independent from military presence given that the complaint is that Bitcoin uses a ton of power and water, and control of energy sources and access to natural resources is historically a giant influential factor in US foreign policy.

superkuh 3y ago
And yet bitcoin works just fine in countries where the central government collapses and their currency is worthless. In fact, that's one of it's more common uses. This is very unlike a fiat currency. The USA could be gone and bitcoin would still work. China did ban it and mining and it still works. The idea that it is "as entangled in the military as any other currency" is obviously untrue.
- danShumway 3y ago
  > The USA could be gone and bitcoin would still work. If the USA vanished tomorrow, the global Internet would collapse, and Bitcoin in fact would not still work. You very literally cannot transact without an Internet connection, the thing that is maintained by... governments and the USD and fiat currency. Also: > And yet bitcoin works just fine in countries where the central government collapses and their currency is worthless. Does it? Bitcoin is terrible at regular transactions, to the point where I've got another Bitcoin proponent further up the thread complaining to me that I shouldn't be comparing Bitcoin to a currency (I wish y'all would get your story straight on that by the way). One big problem is that the price fluctuates way too much and the community is actively hostile to attempts to stabilize the price. Transaction fees are another issue; the best method that's been proposed to minimize transaction fees is to take transactions off of the blockchain and then consolidate them. Which sure, honestly I agree with that strategy, but it should give people pause that making a currency usable involves avoiding the underlying technology behind it. And so you bring up countries like China, but Bitcoin really hasn't thrived in China. Yeah, some people use it, but restricting it for everyday purchases has pretty much worked out the way the government hoped. The coin is not really that censorship resistant, you end up kind of needing to go through the same money-laundering steps that you'd use anyway to get it into a usable currency. But all of that is kind of besides the point, because once again, in a world with an unstable power grid or disrupted Internet, the currency stops functioning. That is not a good disaster currency. But go ahead, prove me wrong. Go set up a Bitcoin mine in Gaza. To the extent that Bitcoin has been able to function in any collapsed region, it's only because other countries like the US, China, EU, etc maintain Internet connections to collapsed regions that users can piggyback on. And those Internet connections are maintained using military and national resources.