3 ms·

For sure many other things caused schisms, wars and revolutions both before and after. But -for good or for evil- the printing press can be fingered as the dir

For sure many other things caused schisms, wars and revolutions both before and after. But -for good or for evil- the printing press can be fingered as the direct and/or indirect culprit in quite a number of cases! Think of the wars associated with the rise of Protestantism, or more directly the reproduction of revolutionary literature, spreading of propaganda, or the slightly unethical tabloid owners pressing for war in the 19th century.

mistrial9 3y ago
I am thinking specifically of the rise of Protestantism yes.. War was the state of affairs between competing tribal groups for millenia across all of Europe and increasing towards the great central plains of Asia, and the Middle East. Christianity in early forms, spread literacy and some common tenants, which evolved into a "pitch" to local Feudal lords as a blueprint for society, blending existing Feudal heirarchy with civilian needs; a similar evolution happened with Islam (but I know less about that). so WAR with military hierarchy specifically existed before the spread of the Bible and other standardized written works. The printing press expanded books, and enabled new ones. Where in that sequence is the printing press "the direct and/or indirect culprit" ? It is not, War was an objective and activity before the Bible, during the early Bible, and later with the printing press versions of the Bible. If anything, the exercise of literacy among non-priesthood, expanded 100-fold civilian activity. It is a serious subject, so please forgive me being pedantic.
- Kim_Bruning 3y ago
  We had wars before the discovery of oil-as-a-resource, we have had wars well after the discovery of oil-as-a-resource. Arguably most wars were not caused directly or indirectly by use of oil-as-a-resource. However, some wars have directly or indirectly been about oil. New kinds of war have been made possible by oil. Again: war existed before the invention of the printing press, and war existed after the invention of the printing press. Arguably most wars were not caused directly or indirectly by the printing press. The use of military hierarchy in warfare predates the printing press. However, in some wars, the cause can be lead back to the use of the printing press, directly or indirectly. And some new forms of warfare are made possible by the printing press. While we can argue how essential a printing press is to the tenets of Protestantism, it is inarguable that the spread of the protestant faith was greatly accelerated by the ability to print pamphlets and disseminate the writings of Martin Luther and other reformers. Protestantism's concept of 'Sola scriptura' also required the translation of the bible into people's local language, and the dissemination of a large number of these translated bibles. Without the printing press this would have been rather tricky. Of course, as a later consequence, the Protestant Reformation then sparked several wars between the new Protestant faith and the Catholics who considered them to be heretics. (Eg the formation of the Netherlands: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighty_Years%27_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighty_Years%27_War -- The lead-up: "Charles [V] aspired to counter the Protestant Reformation and keep all his subjects obedient to the Catholic Church." )
  - mistrial9 3y ago
    thank you for your thoughtful reply. I find "oil-as-a-resource" to be a uniquely-awful analogy for the impacts of the printing press on civilization. We probably have many unspoken assumptions about the question that also differ. Some people say that pulling "principle cause" from chapters of history is very difficult from a Science point of view, since the entire experiment has so many parts, and cannot be replicated. So it is here. best to all from California
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    - Kim_Bruning 3y ago
      At first you seemed to be reading my words as pertaining to principle causes. When I tried to correct this view by using oil as an example, you tried reading the example as an analogy instead.
      - mistrial9 3y ago
        ugh - you are right. misspoken by me
        Kim_Bruning 3y ago
        Eh, you're a good sort. Just a bit quick to jump the gun at times!

mistrial9 3y ago

I am thinking specifically of the rise of Protestantism yes.. War was the state of affairs between competing tribal groups for millenia across all of Europe and increasing towards the great central plains of Asia, and the Middle East. Christianity in early forms, spread literacy and some common tenants, which evolved into a "pitch" to local Feudal lords as a blueprint for society, blending existing Feudal heirarchy with civilian needs; a similar evolution happened with Islam (but I know less about that). so WAR with military hierarchy specifically existed before the spread of the Bible and other standardized written works. The printing press expanded books, and enabled new ones. Where in that sequence is the printing press "the direct and/or indirect culprit" ? It is not, War was an objective and activity before the Bible, during the early Bible, and later with the printing press versions of the Bible. If anything, the exercise of literacy among non-priesthood, expanded 100-fold civilian activity. It is a serious subject, so please forgive me being pedantic.

Kim_Bruning 3y ago
We had wars before the discovery of oil-as-a-resource, we have had wars well after the discovery of oil-as-a-resource. Arguably most wars were not caused directly or indirectly by use of oil-as-a-resource. However, some wars have directly or indirectly been about oil. New kinds of war have been made possible by oil. Again: war existed before the invention of the printing press, and war existed after the invention of the printing press. Arguably most wars were not caused directly or indirectly by the printing press. The use of military hierarchy in warfare predates the printing press. However, in some wars, the cause can be lead back to the use of the printing press, directly or indirectly. And some new forms of warfare are made possible by the printing press. While we can argue how essential a printing press is to the tenets of Protestantism, it is inarguable that the spread of the protestant faith was greatly accelerated by the ability to print pamphlets and disseminate the writings of Martin Luther and other reformers. Protestantism's concept of 'Sola scriptura' also required the translation of the bible into people's local language, and the dissemination of a large number of these translated bibles. Without the printing press this would have been rather tricky. Of course, as a later consequence, the Protestant Reformation then sparked several wars between the new Protestant faith and the Catholics who considered them to be heretics. (Eg the formation of the Netherlands: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighty_Years%27_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighty_Years%27_War -- The lead-up: "Charles [V] aspired to counter the Protestant Reformation and keep all his subjects obedient to the Catholic Church." )
- mistrial9 3y ago
  thank you for your thoughtful reply. I find "oil-as-a-resource" to be a uniquely-awful analogy for the impacts of the printing press on civilization. We probably have many unspoken assumptions about the question that also differ. Some people say that pulling "principle cause" from chapters of history is very difficult from a Science point of view, since the entire experiment has so many parts, and cannot be replicated. So it is here. best to all from California
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  - Kim_Bruning 3y ago
    At first you seemed to be reading my words as pertaining to principle causes. When I tried to correct this view by using oil as an example, you tried reading the example as an analogy instead.
    - mistrial9 3y ago
      ugh - you are right. misspoken by me
      - Kim_Bruning 3y ago
        Eh, you're a good sort. Just a bit quick to jump the gun at times!