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I don't like explaining this, because it should be obvious, but pretending this to be obvious would be hypocrisy. Yes, in an ideal world, you wouldn't care. Bu

I don't like explaining this, because it should be obvious, but pretending this to be obvious would be hypocrisy. Yes, in an ideal world, you wouldn't care. But we are incredibly far away from that ideal, and we must put special care into our actions to keep us moving towards that state. Acting as if there was no problem is ignorance, it enables the privileged to perpetuate the status quo.

olalonde 3y ago
My ideal world state is one where there is no race or gender based discrimination. The way to get closer to that ideal is to condemn race or gender based discrimination. What's problematic about that?
- phpisthebest 3y ago
  [flagged]
- vidarh 3y ago
  What is problematic about that is that you don't fix existing discrimination by just condemning something while pretending that just as long as you don't make it worse you're not perpetuating the effects of what is there. In other words, if you run a conference and everyone who applies to speak is a white man, and you don't ask yourself why and what you can do to make that more reflective of society, you're helping to entrench the effects of discrimination in a way that makes your claim that your ideal world state doesn't have that discrimination ring entirely hollow.
  - colpabar 3y ago
    I think the overwhelming majority of people (and not just us white devils) would disagree with you. We want to end discrimination by not discriminating, not discriminating in a way you think is good.
    - vidarh 3y ago
      As a "white devil": way to totally fail to understand what I wrote. Nothing I wrote argued for discrimination, and it's flat out dishonest of you to claim so.
  - raxxorraxor 3y ago
    I don't believe that you are correct on that position at all. I do know women in tech that don't want to be a "woman in tech". Sounds like it would not make sense, but it does if you actually listen to them. This is not gatekeeping, the perspective is just different and it is incompatible with yours. As well as not perpetuating discrimination is incompatible with your perspective. To assume that people are drawn in by role models also discriminates for certain types of personality for that matter and it is enough for you to justify further discrimination. I don't think that is enough information based on evidence. Not the conference is discriminating, you are.

olalonde 3y ago

My ideal world state is one where there is no race or gender based discrimination. The way to get closer to that ideal is to condemn race or gender based discrimination. What's problematic about that?

phpisthebest 3y ago
[flagged]
vidarh 3y ago
What is problematic about that is that you don't fix existing discrimination by just condemning something while pretending that just as long as you don't make it worse you're not perpetuating the effects of what is there. In other words, if you run a conference and everyone who applies to speak is a white man, and you don't ask yourself why and what you can do to make that more reflective of society, you're helping to entrench the effects of discrimination in a way that makes your claim that your ideal world state doesn't have that discrimination ring entirely hollow.
- colpabar 3y ago
  I think the overwhelming majority of people (and not just us white devils) would disagree with you. We want to end discrimination by not discriminating, not discriminating in a way you think is good.
  - vidarh 3y ago
    As a "white devil": way to totally fail to understand what I wrote. Nothing I wrote argued for discrimination, and it's flat out dishonest of you to claim so.
- raxxorraxor 3y ago
  I don't believe that you are correct on that position at all. I do know women in tech that don't want to be a "woman in tech". Sounds like it would not make sense, but it does if you actually listen to them. This is not gatekeeping, the perspective is just different and it is incompatible with yours. As well as not perpetuating discrimination is incompatible with your perspective. To assume that people are drawn in by role models also discriminates for certain types of personality for that matter and it is enough for you to justify further discrimination. I don't think that is enough information based on evidence. Not the conference is discriminating, you are.