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Adding yet another dimension to the challenge is the transformational nature of the EV business, which may ultimately be driven less by hardware than software.

Adding yet another dimension to the challenge is the transformational nature of the EV business, which may ultimately be driven less by hardware than software. I'd argue the opposite. I wouldn't buy a software filled "smart EV". I'd love a dumb as hell, electric "kei van" that's 4WD. No Japanese automaker produces them however, it's absolutely ridiculous considering how popular the form factor and "dumb" kei car is.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
You are not the target market. Get a second hand Leaf or Bolt or similar golf cart EV. https://electrek.co/2023/05/25/tesla-model-y-is-now-the-worlds-best-selling-car-first-ev-to-do-so/ https://electrek.co/2023/05/25/tesla-model-y-is-now-the-worl... ("Tesla Model Y is now the world’s best-selling car, first EV to do so") https://insideevs.com/news/698351/used-ev-prices-drop-sales-take-longer/ https://insideevs.com/news/698351/used-ev-prices-drop-sales-... ("Polestar 2, Ford F-150 Lightning, and Kia EV6 are among the slowest-selling used EVs.")
- ChatGTP 3y ago
  [flagged]
- dv_dt 3y ago
  How are those non-tesla models selling used? I don’t think any of them are even three years old. It seems like a skewed comparison.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Study/methodology: https://www.iseecars.com/hybrid-and-electric-car-prices-study https://www.iseecars.com/hybrid-and-electric-car-prices-stud... (disclaimer: I am trying to pick up used undervalued Teslas for folks in my circle who are in need of a vehicle, hence my ear to the ground on this topic)
    - dv_dt 3y ago
      I don't dispute the numbers in the study, but without added context, I think some of the comparisons lead to nonsensical conclusions because of the shifting landscape of new model availability with added manufacturers. Also I think a lot of the mfrs, shot their used pricing in the foot due to announcing future upcoming charging plug changes. Similarly with "slow selling new EVs" there is an unrevealed item there on how much inventory some of those models are supplied with. e.g dealers might be keeping a high markup on models they know aren't going to be delivered in high volume - so they keep cars in the lot w/ high margin while pulling in curious car buyers with it.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- Night_Thastus 3y ago
  I would not get a Leaf. Those things are quite poorly designed, with no proper heating or cooling for the batteries, leading to a very low lifespan on them. It's not just a first-generation problem either, it's persisted all these years. I love the idea of electrics, but a Leaf is not the way to go.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    That is a fair concern (and why I only buy Teslas, they are the gold standard for battery pack management), but they seem to hold up well enough to be shucked for a second life as utility scale storage [1]. If resource constrained and you still want an EV that is mostly dumb, it is a reasonable option if your transportation needs are local. [1] https://cleantechnica.com/2023/11/26/ev-batteries-are-perfect-for-storing-solar-power/ https://cleantechnica.com/2023/11/26/ev-batteries-are-perfec...
- ChatGTP 3y ago
  I need a van or truck for work.
pornel 3y ago
Software is eating all cars. It just happens that there weren't many good BEVs 20 years ago, so the touchscreen-takeover looks correlated with EVs. Old Leaf and Renault Zoe have barely any tech in them (by modern standards). There was a niche Coda EV that was as "dumb" as any car from its era. EVs only need software for battery management. Conversely, overuse of software, touchscreens and faux buttons made its way to contemporary ICE cars too. The crappy UI that VW has created for ID.3 has been "backported" to their ICE hatchbacks. Every car you buy with a 2024 model-year is going to be an iPad on wheels.
- ChatGTP 3y ago
  I'm so fucking glad I ride a push bike about 95% of the time. Not even an e-Bike, just a simple bike I can fix myself. It's good for me as well. I love the freedom of it so much.
- mavhc 3y ago
  My 10 year old Leaf has satnav, mobile connection, can download rss feeds and speak them out loud, has cruise control. All the config is via touchscreen: charging timers, climate timers, satnav, bluetooth, phone. Has voice control, a mobile app
  - mwint 3y ago
    My 9 year old leaf is an S model and has none of that - it’s blissfully simple. Prefer it over the SL model also in the family.
    - mavhc 3y ago
      having a screen with a satnav is a must, to compare GOM miles remaining to miles remaining of route
      - mwint 3y ago
        Yeah, but my phone on a vent mount works fine for that. Usually on any trip that brushes up against usable range, I do the math kind of backwards. I know the distance for the trip, and know how much buffer I have. Then I just look at the trip distance elapsed, compared to the GOM, and if they are roughly 1:1 I know I’m trending well.
hef19898 3y ago
Yeah, as much as I hate it, modern cars turn more and more into computers on wheels. Or rather smartphone. Applies to all modern cars, not just EVs.
- silon42 3y ago
  [flagged]
fomine3 3y ago
Actually simple Kei van is a one of the earliest commercial BEV: MINICAB-MiEV. Nissan Sakura isn't a true van but it's great. Honda and Toyota/Daihatsu/Suzuki are going to release. https://www.daihatsu.com/news/2023/20230517-2.html https://www.daihatsu.com/news/2023/20230517-2.html https://electrek.co/2023/09/29/honda-unveils-10k-electric-n-van-e-130-mile-range-v2h/ https://electrek.co/2023/09/29/honda-unveils-10k-electric-n-... Range anxiety and battery cost are the one of the biggest issue for an EV especially for smaller cars, so small battery Kei car for limited use case is easier to sell than subcompact car.

toomuchtodo 3y ago

You are not the target market. Get a second hand Leaf or Bolt or similar golf cart EV. https://electrek.co/2023/05/25/tesla-model-y-is-now-the-worlds-best-selling-car-first-ev-to-do-so/ https://electrek.co/2023/05/25/tesla-model-y-is-now-the-worl... ("Tesla Model Y is now the world’s best-selling car, first EV to do so") https://insideevs.com/news/698351/used-ev-prices-drop-sales-take-longer/ https://insideevs.com/news/698351/used-ev-prices-drop-sales-... ("Polestar 2, Ford F-150 Lightning, and Kia EV6 are among the slowest-selling used EVs.")

ChatGTP 3y ago
[flagged]
dv_dt 3y ago
How are those non-tesla models selling used? I don’t think any of them are even three years old. It seems like a skewed comparison.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Study/methodology: https://www.iseecars.com/hybrid-and-electric-car-prices-study https://www.iseecars.com/hybrid-and-electric-car-prices-stud... (disclaimer: I am trying to pick up used undervalued Teslas for folks in my circle who are in need of a vehicle, hence my ear to the ground on this topic)
  - dv_dt 3y ago
    I don't dispute the numbers in the study, but without added context, I think some of the comparisons lead to nonsensical conclusions because of the shifting landscape of new model availability with added manufacturers. Also I think a lot of the mfrs, shot their used pricing in the foot due to announcing future upcoming charging plug changes. Similarly with "slow selling new EVs" there is an unrevealed item there on how much inventory some of those models are supplied with. e.g dealers might be keeping a high markup on models they know aren't going to be delivered in high volume - so they keep cars in the lot w/ high margin while pulling in curious car buyers with it.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
Night_Thastus 3y ago
I would not get a Leaf. Those things are quite poorly designed, with no proper heating or cooling for the batteries, leading to a very low lifespan on them. It's not just a first-generation problem either, it's persisted all these years. I love the idea of electrics, but a Leaf is not the way to go.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  That is a fair concern (and why I only buy Teslas, they are the gold standard for battery pack management), but they seem to hold up well enough to be shucked for a second life as utility scale storage [1]. If resource constrained and you still want an EV that is mostly dumb, it is a reasonable option if your transportation needs are local. [1] https://cleantechnica.com/2023/11/26/ev-batteries-are-perfect-for-storing-solar-power/ https://cleantechnica.com/2023/11/26/ev-batteries-are-perfec...
ChatGTP 3y ago
I need a van or truck for work.

pornel 3y ago

Software is eating all cars. It just happens that there weren't many good BEVs 20 years ago, so the touchscreen-takeover looks correlated with EVs. Old Leaf and Renault Zoe have barely any tech in them (by modern standards). There was a niche Coda EV that was as "dumb" as any car from its era. EVs only need software for battery management. Conversely, overuse of software, touchscreens and faux buttons made its way to contemporary ICE cars too. The crappy UI that VW has created for ID.3 has been "backported" to their ICE hatchbacks. Every car you buy with a 2024 model-year is going to be an iPad on wheels.

ChatGTP 3y ago
I'm so fucking glad I ride a push bike about 95% of the time. Not even an e-Bike, just a simple bike I can fix myself. It's good for me as well. I love the freedom of it so much.
mavhc 3y ago
My 10 year old Leaf has satnav, mobile connection, can download rss feeds and speak them out loud, has cruise control. All the config is via touchscreen: charging timers, climate timers, satnav, bluetooth, phone. Has voice control, a mobile app
- mwint 3y ago
  My 9 year old leaf is an S model and has none of that - it’s blissfully simple. Prefer it over the SL model also in the family.
  - mavhc 3y ago
    having a screen with a satnav is a must, to compare GOM miles remaining to miles remaining of route
    - mwint 3y ago
      Yeah, but my phone on a vent mount works fine for that. Usually on any trip that brushes up against usable range, I do the math kind of backwards. I know the distance for the trip, and know how much buffer I have. Then I just look at the trip distance elapsed, compared to the GOM, and if they are roughly 1:1 I know I’m trending well.

hef19898 3y ago

Yeah, as much as I hate it, modern cars turn more and more into computers on wheels. Or rather smartphone. Applies to all modern cars, not just EVs.

silon42 3y ago
[flagged]

fomine3 3y ago

Actually simple Kei van is a one of the earliest commercial BEV: MINICAB-MiEV. Nissan Sakura isn't a true van but it's great. Honda and Toyota/Daihatsu/Suzuki are going to release. https://www.daihatsu.com/news/2023/20230517-2.html https://www.daihatsu.com/news/2023/20230517-2.html https://electrek.co/2023/09/29/honda-unveils-10k-electric-n-van-e-130-mile-range-v2h/ https://electrek.co/2023/09/29/honda-unveils-10k-electric-n-... Range anxiety and battery cost are the one of the biggest issue for an EV especially for smaller cars, so small battery Kei car for limited use case is easier to sell than subcompact car.