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There really isn't more to the story. russia has been oppressing and killing Ukrainians since the creation of the russian empire. They have only stopped for a b

There really isn't more to the story. russia has been oppressing and killing Ukrainians since the creation of the russian empire. They have only stopped for a brief period after the fall of the USSR. You are claiming there are no nazis. So Nazi Germany was fiction? russians are nazis, just look on the internet. Monsters do exist - war criminals, mass murderers, brutal dictators. Not all people are regular humans and some need to be punished for their evil actions. Where did you get this unicorns pooping rainbows bullshit? russians, not Ukrainians started this war and happily support the killing of the other side. They are the reason this keeps happening.

klibertp 3y ago
> Where did you get this unicorns pooping rainbows bullshit? It's called "humanism," and it's not bullshit. It mostly says that killing people is wrong. Of course, you think otherwise, so it might seem like bullshit to you. EDIT: > So Nazi Germany was fiction? No. The notion that all soldiers fighting on the Germany side in WW2 were monsters is, however. If the world subscribed to your ideology, there'd be a catacomb of millions buried under Nurnberg (there's no such thing, if you wondered).
- dataworm 3y ago
  > The notion that all soldiers fighting on the Germany side in WW2 were monsters is, however. If the world subscribed to your ideology, there'd be a catacomb of millions buried under Nurnberg (there's no such thing, if you wondered). Where did I say that all soldiers fighting for Germany in WW2 were monsters? I invoked Nazi Germany because you said there are no nazis and monsters and everyone is a regular human.
  - klibertp 3y ago
    Somehow, not all soldiers fighting for Germany were monsters, but > russian soldiers are evil nazis, not normal people. Russian soldiers are. These are your words from upthread. Why is Russian army staffed by "evil nazis" exclusively, while actual Nazi army... wasn't?
    - dataworm 3y ago
      > Why is Russian army staffed by "evil nazis" exclusively, while actual Nazi army... wasn't? What do you mean by 'actual'? Just because the russian ruling party aren't calling themselves National-Socialists doesn't mean they aren't 'actual' nazis. Search for "rashism". russia is even more evil than Nazi Germany because Germany had one very bad episode in 1933-1945, while russia has been committing atrocities, oppressing and occupying ever since the Grand Duchy of Moscow.
      - klibertp 3y ago
        > What do you mean by 'actual'? I mean the historical Nazis from WW2. Again: you admitted that not all Wehrmacht soldiers were evil, monsters, or even Nazis (other than nominally). But, in your words, all soldiers fighting for the Russian Federation right now in their aggression on Ukraine - are all bad people. I'm asking, why do you agree to cut some slack for the former but are unwilling to do so for the latter? Other than the latter being involved with you, personally, destroying your country and killing your people right now - of course. My grandpa lost 5 of his siblings to Germans in WW2 - they were civilians, killed because his uncle was a butcher, and happened to have a knife with him when they met German soldiers. It made him hate Germans, all of them, no exceptions, and I'm not surprised it turned out like that. He kept this hatred (only second to his hatred of Jews) to the very end of his life, and that's understandable, but it was irrational. I don't believe some Hans or Johann deserves to be hated 70 years later because of what happened back then. Similarly, dehumanizing and demonizing the whole Russian military (EDIT: or even the whole nation), including those poor convicts that supposedly die in droves as fodder for "human wave" tactics, is not rational now. I understand that hatred can be an emotional support for affected individuals, but it doesn't help the situation; instead, it makes it worse.
        dataworm 3y ago
        > Again: you admitted that not all Wehrmacht soldiers were evil, monsters, or even Nazis (other than nominally). I mostly meant that I don't think all of them should have been executed, 18 million Germans served in the Wehrmacht. > I don't believe some Hans or Johann deserves to be hated 70 years later because of what happened back then. The russians have been oppressing and killing Ukrainians for over 300 years, 1991-2014 was just a small pause. Nazi Germany, on the other hand, existed for only 12 years, and Germany is very different now, and most soldiers that fought in WW2 are dead. russians keep doing horrible things since a very long time ago and hating them is completely justified until russia is denazified and becomes a normal country. People like Ivan the Terrible, stalin, putin wouldn't keep coming to power if something wasn't very wrong with the russian nation, and by the way russia consists of many different nations that were subjugated by muscovites. russia has a much longer history of pure evil and that's why I consider most russians evil. While killing all of them is wrong, they should be occupied and reeducated, and never allowed to have a large military and nukes ever again. Given the low population density of russia, most of its sparsely populated lands should be shared between all countries to provide living space for billions of people that isn't affected by global warming.
  - deleted 3y ago
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- dataworm 3y ago
  > It's called "humanism," and it's not bullshit. It mostly says that killing people is wrong. Of course, you think otherwise, so it might seem like bullshit to you. Where did I say that killing people is right? War criminals should be executed for their actions, but I'm not saying that every russian should be killed. You are saying that there are no evil people and that everyone is a regular human. Then what about concentration camp commandants, mass murderers, war criminals? Do you think they are no worse than normal people, and deserve to live a good life? Then what you're saying is definitely bullshit.
- mopsi 3y ago
  > No. The notion that all soldiers fighting on the Germany side in WW2 were monsters is, however. If the world subscribed to your ideology, there'd be a catacomb of millions buried under Nurnberg (there's no such thing, if you wondered). This is known as "the clean Wehrmacht myth", a belief that somehow, somewhere in the German military, there were units that did not have the blood of innocents on their hands. At least in Germany, that myth was shattered by an influential exhibition in the 1990s that showcased photos explicitly selected to display atrocities that were not committed by special squads in death camps hidden away in the woods, but out in the public, by regular units, on the streets and roads of cities and villages across Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_clean_Wehrmacht https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_clean_Wehrmacht And despite that, there indeed is no catacomb beneath Nürnberg. Virtually all German war criminals received no punishment whatsoever. Out of millions of people involved in the extermination of Jews and other crimes against peoples on occupied territories, only 6656 were ever convicted in Germany, and the vast majority received a sentence of 2 years of imprisonment or less. Only 164 were convicted of murder, yet millions had died. https://www.timesofisrael.com/historian-examines-germanys-minute-number-of-convictions-for-nazi-war-crimes/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/historian-examines-germanys-mi...
  - klibertp 3y ago
    > but out in the public, by regular units, on the streets and roads of cities and villages all across Europe. Interesting, I just posted a family story illustrating one of these crimes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38460975 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38460975 I couldn't believe in the "clean Wehrmacht" myth even if I wanted to. I'm still not convinced all the Wehrmacht soldiers were inherently bad people or monsters. I'm not defending them - what they did across Europe, what led to millions of graves, was wrong. What I'm cautious about, though, is the hatred and emotional judgment that leads to more, not less, bloodshed. The lack of a catacomb is good. The absence of any punishment for people outside those 7k convicted, however, is not.
deleted 3y ago
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ponector 3y ago
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klibertp 3y ago

> Where did you get this unicorns pooping rainbows bullshit? It's called "humanism," and it's not bullshit. It mostly says that killing people is wrong. Of course, you think otherwise, so it might seem like bullshit to you. EDIT: > So Nazi Germany was fiction? No. The notion that all soldiers fighting on the Germany side in WW2 were monsters is, however. If the world subscribed to your ideology, there'd be a catacomb of millions buried under Nurnberg (there's no such thing, if you wondered).

dataworm 3y ago
> The notion that all soldiers fighting on the Germany side in WW2 were monsters is, however. If the world subscribed to your ideology, there'd be a catacomb of millions buried under Nurnberg (there's no such thing, if you wondered). Where did I say that all soldiers fighting for Germany in WW2 were monsters? I invoked Nazi Germany because you said there are no nazis and monsters and everyone is a regular human.
- klibertp 3y ago
  Somehow, not all soldiers fighting for Germany were monsters, but > russian soldiers are evil nazis, not normal people. Russian soldiers are. These are your words from upthread. Why is Russian army staffed by "evil nazis" exclusively, while actual Nazi army... wasn't?
  - dataworm 3y ago
    > Why is Russian army staffed by "evil nazis" exclusively, while actual Nazi army... wasn't? What do you mean by 'actual'? Just because the russian ruling party aren't calling themselves National-Socialists doesn't mean they aren't 'actual' nazis. Search for "rashism". russia is even more evil than Nazi Germany because Germany had one very bad episode in 1933-1945, while russia has been committing atrocities, oppressing and occupying ever since the Grand Duchy of Moscow.
    - klibertp 3y ago
      > What do you mean by 'actual'? I mean the historical Nazis from WW2. Again: you admitted that not all Wehrmacht soldiers were evil, monsters, or even Nazis (other than nominally). But, in your words, all soldiers fighting for the Russian Federation right now in their aggression on Ukraine - are all bad people. I'm asking, why do you agree to cut some slack for the former but are unwilling to do so for the latter? Other than the latter being involved with you, personally, destroying your country and killing your people right now - of course. My grandpa lost 5 of his siblings to Germans in WW2 - they were civilians, killed because his uncle was a butcher, and happened to have a knife with him when they met German soldiers. It made him hate Germans, all of them, no exceptions, and I'm not surprised it turned out like that. He kept this hatred (only second to his hatred of Jews) to the very end of his life, and that's understandable, but it was irrational. I don't believe some Hans or Johann deserves to be hated 70 years later because of what happened back then. Similarly, dehumanizing and demonizing the whole Russian military (EDIT: or even the whole nation), including those poor convicts that supposedly die in droves as fodder for "human wave" tactics, is not rational now. I understand that hatred can be an emotional support for affected individuals, but it doesn't help the situation; instead, it makes it worse.
      - dataworm 3y ago
        > Again: you admitted that not all Wehrmacht soldiers were evil, monsters, or even Nazis (other than nominally). I mostly meant that I don't think all of them should have been executed, 18 million Germans served in the Wehrmacht. > I don't believe some Hans or Johann deserves to be hated 70 years later because of what happened back then. The russians have been oppressing and killing Ukrainians for over 300 years, 1991-2014 was just a small pause. Nazi Germany, on the other hand, existed for only 12 years, and Germany is very different now, and most soldiers that fought in WW2 are dead. russians keep doing horrible things since a very long time ago and hating them is completely justified until russia is denazified and becomes a normal country. People like Ivan the Terrible, stalin, putin wouldn't keep coming to power if something wasn't very wrong with the russian nation, and by the way russia consists of many different nations that were subjugated by muscovites. russia has a much longer history of pure evil and that's why I consider most russians evil. While killing all of them is wrong, they should be occupied and reeducated, and never allowed to have a large military and nukes ever again. Given the low population density of russia, most of its sparsely populated lands should be shared between all countries to provide living space for billions of people that isn't affected by global warming.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
dataworm 3y ago
> It's called "humanism," and it's not bullshit. It mostly says that killing people is wrong. Of course, you think otherwise, so it might seem like bullshit to you. Where did I say that killing people is right? War criminals should be executed for their actions, but I'm not saying that every russian should be killed. You are saying that there are no evil people and that everyone is a regular human. Then what about concentration camp commandants, mass murderers, war criminals? Do you think they are no worse than normal people, and deserve to live a good life? Then what you're saying is definitely bullshit.
mopsi 3y ago
> No. The notion that all soldiers fighting on the Germany side in WW2 were monsters is, however. If the world subscribed to your ideology, there'd be a catacomb of millions buried under Nurnberg (there's no such thing, if you wondered). This is known as "the clean Wehrmacht myth", a belief that somehow, somewhere in the German military, there were units that did not have the blood of innocents on their hands. At least in Germany, that myth was shattered by an influential exhibition in the 1990s that showcased photos explicitly selected to display atrocities that were not committed by special squads in death camps hidden away in the woods, but out in the public, by regular units, on the streets and roads of cities and villages across Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_clean_Wehrmacht https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_clean_Wehrmacht And despite that, there indeed is no catacomb beneath Nürnberg. Virtually all German war criminals received no punishment whatsoever. Out of millions of people involved in the extermination of Jews and other crimes against peoples on occupied territories, only 6656 were ever convicted in Germany, and the vast majority received a sentence of 2 years of imprisonment or less. Only 164 were convicted of murder, yet millions had died. https://www.timesofisrael.com/historian-examines-germanys-minute-number-of-convictions-for-nazi-war-crimes/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/historian-examines-germanys-mi...
- klibertp 3y ago
  > but out in the public, by regular units, on the streets and roads of cities and villages all across Europe. Interesting, I just posted a family story illustrating one of these crimes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38460975 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38460975 I couldn't believe in the "clean Wehrmacht" myth even if I wanted to. I'm still not convinced all the Wehrmacht soldiers were inherently bad people or monsters. I'm not defending them - what they did across Europe, what led to millions of graves, was wrong. What I'm cautious about, though, is the hatred and emotional judgment that leads to more, not less, bloodshed. The lack of a catacomb is good. The absence of any punishment for people outside those 7k convicted, however, is not.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ponector 3y ago

[flagged]