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These are two separate incidents, with similarities but also important differences. We don't know how the US military would've reacted if Iran Air 655 would've

These are two separate incidents, with similarities but also important differences. We don't know how the US military would've reacted if Iran Air 655 would've overflown restricted airspace above the US. For sure the Soviets fucked up by not trying to call on 121.5 MHz, but is that worse than the US fucking up by being so close (arguably intruding) another country space, and yet not having equipment to monitor civilian air traffic control in the area? I'm not sure.

dmix 3y ago
> and yet not having equipment to monitor civilian air traffic control in the area? I'm not sure. Did you not read the linked article in the thread you’re replying to? The US did have an IFF detection system, it was a core part of how it worked. The issue was a UI failure which confused identification by mixing up two different (real) IFF indicators one from military and one from civilian and made it seem to the captain that the military one was flying towards them. That’s a legit honest mistake. They had 4 minutes from the “take off” to when it was almost overhead. Navigating Iranian air traffic control radio isn’t exactly a solution in tense situations. > We don't know how the US military would've reacted if Iran Air 655 would've overflown restricted airspace above the US. Restricted US airspace has been violated many times in history. As have Russians. And many other countries.
- angiosperm 3y ago
  Yet, the USS Sides steaming nearby identified it correctly as a civilian flight with no difficulty.
  - hn_go_brrrrr 3y ago
    Presumably because their operator did not make the same mistake as the one on the Vincennes?
    - angiosperm 3y ago
      And because they knew that flight went out the same time every day.
arp242 3y ago
> We don't know how the US military would've reacted if Iran Air 655 would've overflown restricted airspace above the US. We have to deal with the facts and reality as it exists, not as it "could have been" in a reality that does not exist. And in the reality that exists, the US acted with infinite more grace and compassion than the Soviet Union. They found the wrecking and kept it a secret for years. I find it extremely unlikely the US would do anything like that in any circumstances even remotely similar. > is that worse than the US fucking up by being so close (arguably intruding) another country space It's not so much about that they messed up, but how they dealt with it. Do you accept responsibility and take action to prevent it in the future, or do you lie and cheat and do everything you can to weasel your way out of responsibility?

dmix 3y ago

> and yet not having equipment to monitor civilian air traffic control in the area? I'm not sure. Did you not read the linked article in the thread you’re replying to? The US did have an IFF detection system, it was a core part of how it worked. The issue was a UI failure which confused identification by mixing up two different (real) IFF indicators one from military and one from civilian and made it seem to the captain that the military one was flying towards them. That’s a legit honest mistake. They had 4 minutes from the “take off” to when it was almost overhead. Navigating Iranian air traffic control radio isn’t exactly a solution in tense situations. > We don't know how the US military would've reacted if Iran Air 655 would've overflown restricted airspace above the US. Restricted US airspace has been violated many times in history. As have Russians. And many other countries.

angiosperm 3y ago
Yet, the USS Sides steaming nearby identified it correctly as a civilian flight with no difficulty.
- hn_go_brrrrr 3y ago
  Presumably because their operator did not make the same mistake as the one on the Vincennes?
  - angiosperm 3y ago
    And because they knew that flight went out the same time every day.

arp242 3y ago

> We don't know how the US military would've reacted if Iran Air 655 would've overflown restricted airspace above the US. We have to deal with the facts and reality as it exists, not as it "could have been" in a reality that does not exist. And in the reality that exists, the US acted with infinite more grace and compassion than the Soviet Union. They found the wrecking and kept it a secret for years. I find it extremely unlikely the US would do anything like that in any circumstances even remotely similar. > is that worse than the US fucking up by being so close (arguably intruding) another country space It's not so much about that they messed up, but how they dealt with it. Do you accept responsibility and take action to prevent it in the future, or do you lie and cheat and do everything you can to weasel your way out of responsibility?