3 ms·

If there are panels which contain only white men, then I will be asking questions about whether people are being excluded, yes. And less interested in giving m

If there are panels which contain only white men, then I will be asking questions about whether people are being excluded, yes. And less interested in giving money to the people organising the conference.

olalonde 3y ago
Why make that assumption? Given that the tech field is predominantly composed of white men, it's not surprising to see panels reflecting this demographic, even without any discriminatory intent. If anything, you'd be more justified in raising that question when encountering a panel containing only black women, considering their underrepresentation in the industry. The probability of that happening randomly, absent of discrimination, is much, much lower.
- vidarh 3y ago
  > Given that the tech field is predominantly composed of white men Is it? Why do you assume this? Of the top ten largest tech companies by employee count, 5 are asian multinationals (Foxconn, Jingdong Mall, Alibaba, Panasonic, Canon). Between that, and the presence of women in "white" tech companies (and yes, I realise plenty of employees in the Asian headquartered companies will also be white, but conversely plenty of employees in the US/Europe based tech companies will be of other ethnicities), which Deloitte put at 25% (based on "analysis and 2021 and 2022 predictions based on published diversity reports from 20 large technology companies (with an average workforce of more than 100,000 employees)") it seems unlikely that white men dominates the tech field all that much. Once you start slicing and dicing it more by geography, then sure, some niches in some locations will lack diversity and so in some cases it may be reasonable to come across a purely white, male panel. But consider that maybe blanket assumptions like this might be part of the problem leading people to just dismiss it as just the way thinks are, instead of trying to search out more diverse viewpoints. (to the "more diverse viewpoints" thing, I'll just point out that even as a white male, I very early in my career came across situations where my cultural experience was a big bonus for an employer because their distinctly non-diverse team led them to make a whole bunch of (incorrect) assumptions about language and internationalisation I didn't, but I still represented language and cultural groups that were very similar to their own; as such if you run a conference and don't ask yourself whether a more diverse lineup might provide added value for your attendees by representing additional viewpoints, you're doing both your attendees and yourself a disservice, and that is another reason why people should consider if your conference is a good one if it seems like you've made no effort)
  - olalonde 3y ago
    I was of course talking in the context of a US based developer conference[0]. It's not a blanked assumption, it's an objective fact. I invite you to look up the statistics. In the same vein, it would be equally unsurprising to see a black only panel in Nigeria or an asian only panel in China. [0] https://cppcon.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/JTP_9606-1024x683.jpg https://cppcon.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/JTP_9606-1024x...
    - vidarh 3y ago
      There was no reason to assume constraints you had not stated, and consider that the demographics of that picture seems to mesh poorly with the demographics of us tech employees, and ask yourself why that is.
      - olalonde 3y ago
        The article was about a US developer conference, that's where the constraint comes from... It's honestly just the first picture I found when googling for developer conferences.
        vidarh 3y ago
        I did not respond to the article. I responded to this part of your comment: > Given that the tech field is predominantly composed of white men You've clarified, I'm still not convinced, as I noted, but it's at least closer.

olalonde 3y ago

Why make that assumption? Given that the tech field is predominantly composed of white men, it's not surprising to see panels reflecting this demographic, even without any discriminatory intent. If anything, you'd be more justified in raising that question when encountering a panel containing only black women, considering their underrepresentation in the industry. The probability of that happening randomly, absent of discrimination, is much, much lower.

vidarh 3y ago
> Given that the tech field is predominantly composed of white men Is it? Why do you assume this? Of the top ten largest tech companies by employee count, 5 are asian multinationals (Foxconn, Jingdong Mall, Alibaba, Panasonic, Canon). Between that, and the presence of women in "white" tech companies (and yes, I realise plenty of employees in the Asian headquartered companies will also be white, but conversely plenty of employees in the US/Europe based tech companies will be of other ethnicities), which Deloitte put at 25% (based on "analysis and 2021 and 2022 predictions based on published diversity reports from 20 large technology companies (with an average workforce of more than 100,000 employees)") it seems unlikely that white men dominates the tech field all that much. Once you start slicing and dicing it more by geography, then sure, some niches in some locations will lack diversity and so in some cases it may be reasonable to come across a purely white, male panel. But consider that maybe blanket assumptions like this might be part of the problem leading people to just dismiss it as just the way thinks are, instead of trying to search out more diverse viewpoints. (to the "more diverse viewpoints" thing, I'll just point out that even as a white male, I very early in my career came across situations where my cultural experience was a big bonus for an employer because their distinctly non-diverse team led them to make a whole bunch of (incorrect) assumptions about language and internationalisation I didn't, but I still represented language and cultural groups that were very similar to their own; as such if you run a conference and don't ask yourself whether a more diverse lineup might provide added value for your attendees by representing additional viewpoints, you're doing both your attendees and yourself a disservice, and that is another reason why people should consider if your conference is a good one if it seems like you've made no effort)
- olalonde 3y ago
  I was of course talking in the context of a US based developer conference[0]. It's not a blanked assumption, it's an objective fact. I invite you to look up the statistics. In the same vein, it would be equally unsurprising to see a black only panel in Nigeria or an asian only panel in China. [0] https://cppcon.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/JTP_9606-1024x683.jpg https://cppcon.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/JTP_9606-1024x...
  - vidarh 3y ago
    There was no reason to assume constraints you had not stated, and consider that the demographics of that picture seems to mesh poorly with the demographics of us tech employees, and ask yourself why that is.
    - olalonde 3y ago
      The article was about a US developer conference, that's where the constraint comes from... It's honestly just the first picture I found when googling for developer conferences.
      - vidarh 3y ago
        I did not respond to the article. I responded to this part of your comment: > Given that the tech field is predominantly composed of white men You've clarified, I'm still not convinced, as I noted, but it's at least closer.