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Missing from your narrative is the treatment of the Palestinians by the Israeli settlers. The settlers are harassing and seizing land from Palestinians. Those s

by Ma8ee 3y ago

Missing from your narrative is the treatment of the Palestinians by the Israeli settlers. The settlers are harassing and seizing land from Palestinians. Those settlers are protected by the Israeli Defense Forces. All of this is well documented and are repeatedly criticised by many well reputable human rights organisations. So, no, it's not restrain that is rewarded by these savage attacks. And while I condemn the terrorist attacks on innocent civilians by Hamas, we should not pretend they came out of a vacuum, or that the state of Israel is a pure peace loving innocent victim in all this.

grumple 3y ago
[flagged]
- immibis 3y ago
  Well that appears to demonstrate that Hamas works and prevents even greater harm than the harm carried out by Hamas. Probably not a message Israel wants to send.
  - grumple 3y ago
    That is the exact opposite of the message that was sent.
shilgapira 3y ago
[flagged]
- Ma8ee 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - hn_go_brrrrr 3y ago
    It's not ridiculous. Your statement reads as "I condemn it, but they really had it coming", which a reasonable person could understand to mean "I don't really condemn it".
    - Ma8ee 3y ago
      Only if you read it in complete isolation. It was an answer to someone who praised Israel for its restraint, like Israel was this pure white dove in the region Here I know it get too complicated for many: I admit, Israel had something coming. I don't support attacks on civilians. Those two statements can be simultaneously true. Israel is an apartheid state. Hamas is a terror organisation, I don't agree with the actions of Israel. I don't agree with the actions of Hamas. I think Palestines have the right to resist. I don't think anyone, Hamas or Israel, has the right to attack innocent civilians.
red75prime 3y ago
> we should not pretend they came out of a vacuum And we shouldn't pretend that organized terrorism is justified by the things you've mentioned.
- immibis 3y ago
  [flagged]
- Ma8ee 3y ago
  No, exactly. That is why I wrote "I condemn the terrorist attacks on innocent civilians by Hamas". But my comment was an answer praise of Israel's constraint, like Israel was completely innocent in this conflict. And the following two paragraphs seems to be incomprehensible to many: Israel is an apartheid state. Palestines have the right to resist that oppression. Hamas (or any Palestine organisation) has no right to attack innocent civilians. Hamas is a terror organisation. Israel has the right to defend itself. Israel has no right to attack innocent civilians.
  - scotty79 3y ago
    How exactly is Israel an apartheid state? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel I agree that death of any innocent civilian is regrettable but I question that all Palestinian citizens are innocent. Some of them fully support Hamas and worked with Hamas and for Hamas and would like to see all Jews dead just as much as Hamas and do everything in their power so that nobody can tell apart innocent civilian from a guilty one or from Hamas. I also question who's fault is it that these innocent civilians die. If a murderer is hiding between regular people shooting at cops who hunt him and at the people as well and cops try to stop him and accidentally shoot some of other people as well in the messy situation the blame is heavily on the murderer himself and very slightly on the police who undoubtedly did the right thing, were just a bit bad on technical implementation, though as good as they could be, given the circumstances.
    - Ma8ee 3y ago
      This is how: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_apartheid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_apartheid I don't think all Palestinians are innocent. I know there are Israelis that are war criminals. None of those facts are excuses to kill Palestinians or Israeli indiscriminately. Letting people die just because they happen to belong to a certain ethnical group is plain racism. Israel has long passed a scale of the killing that could be explained as "collateral damage". "the civilian death toll as of 20 November is 16,413, with nearly 34,000 injured. This would mean one in every 142 Palestinian civilians killed in a month and a half." "With an estimated 70% of the dead being women and children – and many of the slain men unlikely to have been combatants " https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/22/gaza-children-death-toll-israel-hamas https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/22/gaza-c...

by Ma8ee 3y ago

grumple 3y ago

[flagged]

immibis 3y ago
Well that appears to demonstrate that Hamas works and prevents even greater harm than the harm carried out by Hamas. Probably not a message Israel wants to send.
- grumple 3y ago
  That is the exact opposite of the message that was sent.

shilgapira 3y ago

[flagged]

Ma8ee 3y ago
[flagged]
- hn_go_brrrrr 3y ago
  It's not ridiculous. Your statement reads as "I condemn it, but they really had it coming", which a reasonable person could understand to mean "I don't really condemn it".
  - Ma8ee 3y ago
    Only if you read it in complete isolation. It was an answer to someone who praised Israel for its restraint, like Israel was this pure white dove in the region Here I know it get too complicated for many: I admit, Israel had something coming. I don't support attacks on civilians. Those two statements can be simultaneously true. Israel is an apartheid state. Hamas is a terror organisation, I don't agree with the actions of Israel. I don't agree with the actions of Hamas. I think Palestines have the right to resist. I don't think anyone, Hamas or Israel, has the right to attack innocent civilians.

red75prime 3y ago

> we should not pretend they came out of a vacuum And we shouldn't pretend that organized terrorism is justified by the things you've mentioned.

immibis 3y ago
[flagged]
Ma8ee 3y ago
No, exactly. That is why I wrote "I condemn the terrorist attacks on innocent civilians by Hamas". But my comment was an answer praise of Israel's constraint, like Israel was completely innocent in this conflict. And the following two paragraphs seems to be incomprehensible to many: Israel is an apartheid state. Palestines have the right to resist that oppression. Hamas (or any Palestine organisation) has no right to attack innocent civilians. Hamas is a terror organisation. Israel has the right to defend itself. Israel has no right to attack innocent civilians.
- scotty79 3y ago
  How exactly is Israel an apartheid state? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel I agree that death of any innocent civilian is regrettable but I question that all Palestinian citizens are innocent. Some of them fully support Hamas and worked with Hamas and for Hamas and would like to see all Jews dead just as much as Hamas and do everything in their power so that nobody can tell apart innocent civilian from a guilty one or from Hamas. I also question who's fault is it that these innocent civilians die. If a murderer is hiding between regular people shooting at cops who hunt him and at the people as well and cops try to stop him and accidentally shoot some of other people as well in the messy situation the blame is heavily on the murderer himself and very slightly on the police who undoubtedly did the right thing, were just a bit bad on technical implementation, though as good as they could be, given the circumstances.
  - Ma8ee 3y ago
    This is how: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_apartheid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_apartheid I don't think all Palestinians are innocent. I know there are Israelis that are war criminals. None of those facts are excuses to kill Palestinians or Israeli indiscriminately. Letting people die just because they happen to belong to a certain ethnical group is plain racism. Israel has long passed a scale of the killing that could be explained as "collateral damage". "the civilian death toll as of 20 November is 16,413, with nearly 34,000 injured. This would mean one in every 142 Palestinian civilians killed in a month and a half." "With an estimated 70% of the dead being women and children – and many of the slain men unlikely to have been combatants " https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/22/gaza-children-death-toll-israel-hamas https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/22/gaza-c...