9 ms·

I'm glad the post states that Roundcube will stay an independent product. Roundcube is on a whole other level in terms of stability and robustness compared to

I'm glad the post states that Roundcube will stay an independent product. Roundcube is on a whole other level in terms of stability and robustness compared to Nextcloud. I'm also glad that the current Nextcloud client will be replaced, because it's not very good right now.

stratom 3y ago
Nextcloud Mail won't be replaced by Roundcube! "Neither will Roundcube replace Nextcloud Mail or the other way around. ... Nextcloud Mail will evolve as it is, focused on being used naturally within Nextcloud."
- preya2k 3y ago
  Thanks for the reminder. I still expect Roundcube to become a well-maintained alternative for E-Mail clients within Nextcloud, right?
  - lakomen 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - miroljub 3y ago
      Please ... don't do that anymore. When I want to "enjoy" memes, I'll go reddit, not HN. Let's keep it clean.
- noname120 3y ago
  Will it be like Microsoft saying that VS Code wouldn't replace Atom after the merger? Not that I like Atom, quite the opposite.
  - Night_Thastus 3y ago
    Atom was my first proper Editor. I miss it, even though there were a lot of bugs. It was so much fun finding all the cool community-made packages and trying them out.
youdontknowjuli 3y ago
I really tried to make Nextcloud work for me but it was too much. I‘ll pay the enshittified Dropbox premium soon. Some bugs I encountered in a few hours of testing and trying to make it work. The Mac auto-update installs an incompatible version to my OS; the website offers only the new incompatible and an old version that also doesn’t work (OS can not scan the app). The solution is to find a suitable version from a hidden FTP, user-unfriendly. Some files had modification timestamps on 1.1.1970 that causes obscure sync issues on Mac. Either run some arbitrary database scripts to fix this or a simpler solution is to ‘touch’ all affected files. The Windows Client consistently shows random minus bytes, hangs, and freezes. The Windows Client is stuck in a loop of calculations and transmissions. Also a reinstallation is impossible as AppData folder isn’t deleted during uninstallation. A successful complete reinstall downloads all the existing files individually, creating conflicts with identical(!?) local and server files. Why is the file hash not checked before the download? It’s frustrating and seems poorly designed. All bugs have open GitHub issues I didn’t bother to include. Some have open PRs for years. The last bug is open for 5 years now.
- eurekin 3y ago
  I installed Nextcloud twice and faced early bugs quickly as well. I'm certainly not moving my 15tb of client photos to it anytime soon
  - op00to 3y ago
    I always wondered why photographers held on to negatives/raw files for so long. How often does the need to return years later come up, and can that justify the cost of storing all that in a way that’s somewhat reliable? I’m not saying there aren’t valid reasons to do so, and throwing the pictures on a few externals drives isn’t terrible, but to do it “right” seems like it would be super expensive!
    - bayindirh 3y ago
      Because better hardware gets cheaper, and one's technique and software improves over time. I was able to recover a 13 year old photo I took with a D70s which was extremely noisy. By using what I learnt and state of the art software (which is Darktable), I was able to extract a very nice photo out of it. Also, as your style improves and experience piles up, you look to your "bad" photos and say "Aha, there's a nice angle here. Let's process this". You can see some of my "Remastered" photos at [0]. [0]: https://www.flickr.com/photos/zerocoder/albums/72157702429561602/with/29340231528 https://www.flickr.com/photos/zerocoder/albums/7215770242956...
smudgy 3y ago
That's a relief. We just swapped out our old webmail system (made from twigs, mud and spit) for a nice and elegant Roundcube install with custom plugins and I was already dreading having to change it.
phpisthebest 3y ago
12-18mos before that changes. no company in the world is going to maintain 2 separate software products that compete with each other. They will be merged, my prediction is 12 to 18 mos
- collegeburner 3y ago
  which sucks bc nextcloud is an ugly, heavyweight beast of a suite to run. whereas roundcube i'm happy running it on my lightweight el cheapo VPS.
  - botanical 3y ago
    Nextcloud looks clunky but it certainly isn't heavyweight
    - coolliquidcode 3y ago
      Isn't it PHP based. I worry about anything written in that turd of a language.
      - lhoff 3y ago
        But so is Roundcube. OT: please (re)read the HN Guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        coolliquidcode 3y ago
        You saying I'm flamebaiting? I doubt anyone is going to be offended by PHP being trash, especially anyone that has spent any serious time working with it.
        coolliquidcode 3y ago
        Then I wouldn't use Roundcube either.
wkat4242 3y ago
The old product is ok yes. The company is awful, with their roundcube next scam though.
- dugite-code 3y ago
  I thought the problem with Roundcube-next was it wasn't run by the roundcube org but separate devs from Kolab? They just made the mistake of endorsing the project Edit: Yep that's the official position as per this post on the roundcube github https://github.com/roundcube/roundcubemail/issues/6030#issuecomment-343144301 https://github.com/roundcube/roundcubemail/issues/6030#issue...
velcrovan 3y ago
The first and only time I had a server hacked was due to a RoundCube vulnerability in 2006. Just a month ago there was news of a RoundCube XSS zero-day that was widely exploited (https://cyberpedia.medium.com/state-sponsored-cyberattacks-leveraging-roundcube-webmail-zero-day-vulnerability-a16499d67786 https://cyberpedia.medium.com/state-sponsored-cyberattacks-l...). Don’t use RoundCube!
- tuwtuwtuwtuw 3y ago
  Can you recommend a webmail client which hasn't had 2 vulnerabilities in the last 15 years?
  - velcrovan 3y ago
    I can recommend not to host your own webmail in general in 2023 unless you are a Fortune 50 company.
    - dugite-code 3y ago
      Or you can just host it behind a VPN if you're not confident in your ability to manage/patch/monitor it
      - tuwtuwtuwtuw 3y ago
        That wouldn't really solve XSS vulnerabilities (of course depending on what the vulnerability is).
    - tuwtuwtuwtuw 3y ago
      Alright, can you recommend a webmail host who hasn't had 2 security issues the last 15 years then?
- stracer 3y ago
  By this logic, you should recommend that people don't use computers. All software has vulnerabilities. The trick is to install it in a way which mitigates most of the typical ones: use VMs, SELINUX/APPARMOR, containers, chroots, user separations, etc.

stratom 3y ago

Nextcloud Mail won't be replaced by Roundcube! "Neither will Roundcube replace Nextcloud Mail or the other way around. ... Nextcloud Mail will evolve as it is, focused on being used naturally within Nextcloud."

preya2k 3y ago
Thanks for the reminder. I still expect Roundcube to become a well-maintained alternative for E-Mail clients within Nextcloud, right?
- lakomen 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - miroljub 3y ago
    Please ... don't do that anymore. When I want to "enjoy" memes, I'll go reddit, not HN. Let's keep it clean.
noname120 3y ago
Will it be like Microsoft saying that VS Code wouldn't replace Atom after the merger? Not that I like Atom, quite the opposite.
- Night_Thastus 3y ago
  Atom was my first proper Editor. I miss it, even though there were a lot of bugs. It was so much fun finding all the cool community-made packages and trying them out.

youdontknowjuli 3y ago

I really tried to make Nextcloud work for me but it was too much. I‘ll pay the enshittified Dropbox premium soon. Some bugs I encountered in a few hours of testing and trying to make it work. The Mac auto-update installs an incompatible version to my OS; the website offers only the new incompatible and an old version that also doesn’t work (OS can not scan the app). The solution is to find a suitable version from a hidden FTP, user-unfriendly. Some files had modification timestamps on 1.1.1970 that causes obscure sync issues on Mac. Either run some arbitrary database scripts to fix this or a simpler solution is to ‘touch’ all affected files. The Windows Client consistently shows random minus bytes, hangs, and freezes. The Windows Client is stuck in a loop of calculations and transmissions. Also a reinstallation is impossible as AppData folder isn’t deleted during uninstallation. A successful complete reinstall downloads all the existing files individually, creating conflicts with identical(!?) local and server files. Why is the file hash not checked before the download? It’s frustrating and seems poorly designed. All bugs have open GitHub issues I didn’t bother to include. Some have open PRs for years. The last bug is open for 5 years now.

eurekin 3y ago
I installed Nextcloud twice and faced early bugs quickly as well. I'm certainly not moving my 15tb of client photos to it anytime soon
- op00to 3y ago
  I always wondered why photographers held on to negatives/raw files for so long. How often does the need to return years later come up, and can that justify the cost of storing all that in a way that’s somewhat reliable? I’m not saying there aren’t valid reasons to do so, and throwing the pictures on a few externals drives isn’t terrible, but to do it “right” seems like it would be super expensive!
  - bayindirh 3y ago
    Because better hardware gets cheaper, and one's technique and software improves over time. I was able to recover a 13 year old photo I took with a D70s which was extremely noisy. By using what I learnt and state of the art software (which is Darktable), I was able to extract a very nice photo out of it. Also, as your style improves and experience piles up, you look to your "bad" photos and say "Aha, there's a nice angle here. Let's process this". You can see some of my "Remastered" photos at [0]. [0]: https://www.flickr.com/photos/zerocoder/albums/72157702429561602/with/29340231528 https://www.flickr.com/photos/zerocoder/albums/7215770242956...

smudgy 3y ago

That's a relief. We just swapped out our old webmail system (made from twigs, mud and spit) for a nice and elegant Roundcube install with custom plugins and I was already dreading having to change it.

phpisthebest 3y ago

12-18mos before that changes. no company in the world is going to maintain 2 separate software products that compete with each other. They will be merged, my prediction is 12 to 18 mos

collegeburner 3y ago
which sucks bc nextcloud is an ugly, heavyweight beast of a suite to run. whereas roundcube i'm happy running it on my lightweight el cheapo VPS.
- botanical 3y ago
  Nextcloud looks clunky but it certainly isn't heavyweight
  - coolliquidcode 3y ago
    Isn't it PHP based. I worry about anything written in that turd of a language.
    - lhoff 3y ago
      But so is Roundcube. OT: please (re)read the HN Guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - coolliquidcode 3y ago
        You saying I'm flamebaiting? I doubt anyone is going to be offended by PHP being trash, especially anyone that has spent any serious time working with it.
      - coolliquidcode 3y ago
        Then I wouldn't use Roundcube either.

wkat4242 3y ago

The old product is ok yes. The company is awful, with their roundcube next scam though.

dugite-code 3y ago
I thought the problem with Roundcube-next was it wasn't run by the roundcube org but separate devs from Kolab? They just made the mistake of endorsing the project Edit: Yep that's the official position as per this post on the roundcube github https://github.com/roundcube/roundcubemail/issues/6030#issuecomment-343144301 https://github.com/roundcube/roundcubemail/issues/6030#issue...

velcrovan 3y ago

The first and only time I had a server hacked was due to a RoundCube vulnerability in 2006. Just a month ago there was news of a RoundCube XSS zero-day that was widely exploited (https://cyberpedia.medium.com/state-sponsored-cyberattacks-leveraging-roundcube-webmail-zero-day-vulnerability-a16499d67786 https://cyberpedia.medium.com/state-sponsored-cyberattacks-l...). Don’t use RoundCube!

tuwtuwtuwtuw 3y ago
Can you recommend a webmail client which hasn't had 2 vulnerabilities in the last 15 years?
- velcrovan 3y ago
  I can recommend not to host your own webmail in general in 2023 unless you are a Fortune 50 company.
  - dugite-code 3y ago
    Or you can just host it behind a VPN if you're not confident in your ability to manage/patch/monitor it
    - tuwtuwtuwtuw 3y ago
      That wouldn't really solve XSS vulnerabilities (of course depending on what the vulnerability is).
  - tuwtuwtuwtuw 3y ago
    Alright, can you recommend a webmail host who hasn't had 2 security issues the last 15 years then?
stracer 3y ago
By this logic, you should recommend that people don't use computers. All software has vulnerabilities. The trick is to install it in a way which mitigates most of the typical ones: use VMs, SELINUX/APPARMOR, containers, chroots, user separations, etc.