> I guess the confusion here is between the company being competitive -- as in making money -- and having products that are competitive in the marketplace This

> I guess the confusion here is between the company being competitive -- as in making money -- and having products that are competitive in the marketplace This is almost certainly going to boil down to being the same in the end. If your company/brand is not competitive, you won't be able to sustain competitiveness in sales long term. Unless you are a rather novel growth company who are able to get enough investments to compensate for the non-existing profits. VW has a special place, because it's intertwined with the state and German politicians will do anything to make it look as if they are still doing okay and have a bright future.