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Also, what was the US navy even doing there? The Persian Gulf is nowhere near the US. It's as if Iran had their navy parked on the US east coast, it would be s

Also, what was the US navy even doing there? The Persian Gulf is nowhere near the US. It's as if Iran had their navy parked on the US east coast, it would be seen as an outrage immediately.

School-Cotton 3y ago
The Persian Gulf, despite the name, is not Iranian territorial waters. Anybody can go there. Iran would be well within its rights to send its warships into the Atlantic Ocean, yes.
- dontlaugh 3y ago
  And what do you think the reaction of Americans would be if that happened? And especially if those warships were prepared to shoot?
  - School-Cotton 3y ago
    It would be a minor news article that most people would not care about, just like when China/Russia sail near US territory in the Pacific (which actually does happen).
  - switch007 3y ago
    American foreign policy is fully subscribed to the idea of American exceptionalism, as are many of their citizens and media outlets. Hypocrisy means nothing to them and won’t shame them in to not doing something
  - t0mas88 3y ago
    This happens all the time. There is a documentary for example on the HMS Elizabeth carrier from the UK and how they deliberately navigated through Crimea waters (together with the Dutch navy) to make a point that they're allowed to do so because that water is Ukrainian and not Russian. In the same documentary you also see Chinese ships follow around the British group, and Russian jets overflying it. All in international waters, all legal, both not appreciated by the UK side of things.
    - Tangurena2 3y ago
      The Montreux Convention[0] prohibits large warships from transiting the Bosporous Strait. That carrier displaces 65,000 tons, the upper limit of the treaty only permits warships of 15,000 tons or less. The UK is one of the signatories to that treaty. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Straits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_... 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Elizabeth-class_aircraft_carrier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Elizabeth-class_aircraft...
      - metabagel 3y ago
        It was actually the HMS Defender, a destroyer, which sailed into the Black Sea, and the Royal Netherlands Navy’s HNLMS Evertsen, a frigate.
      - t0mas88 3y ago
        Ah yes, it were two ships part of the Queen Elizabeth strike group, but not the carrier itself. The command was given by the admiral that was on board the Elizabeth. Now that you write that it makes sense why they would send only two ships and not move the group around there.
- cherryteastain 3y ago
  US seizes Iranian cargo on even non Iranian vessels [1] with impunity. Iran sending warships would be as harshly responded to as the Cuban Missile Crisis. [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-confiscates-iran-oil-cargo-tanker-amid-tehran-tensions-sources-2023-04-28/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-confiscates-ira...
Tangurena2 3y ago
25% of the world's crude oil was shipped out of the Gulf at that time. The Iran-Iraq war had caused the prices of crude to skyrocket as many insurance companies refused to cover any shipping in the region. So the US felt compelled to protect the exports of crude oil from "friendly" nations. While continuing to blockade Iranian imports/exports. For more details on the political situation at that time, I recommend reading The Persian Puzzle by Pollack. https://www.amazon.com/Persian-Puzzle-Conflict-Between-America/dp/0812973364 https://www.amazon.com/Persian-Puzzle-Conflict-Between-Ameri... Additionally, to help explain how messed up the shoot-down was, Sources of Power by Klein. https://www.amazon.com/Sources-Power-20th-Anniversary-Decisions-ebook/dp/B08BT2GHXS/ https://www.amazon.com/Sources-Power-20th-Anniversary-Decisi...
thereddaikon 3y ago
One of the main jobs of the USN is to protect commercial shipping lanes. This is of US national interest because a lot of commerce flows through international shipping lanes. Its not unique to the US either. Its a historical duty of most nation's blue water navies. The persian gulf does not belong to Iran. Its international waters. But they have a history of using piracy in the persian gulf as a tool of the state and generally acting a destabilizing force in the area. So the US, and other nations often patrol the region to protect civilian shipping.
- dontlaugh 3y ago
  Maybe the US shouldn't have invaded several countries in the region and encircled Iran.
  - thereddaikon 3y ago
    This was in the 1980's. Who had the US invaded in the middle east?
    - dontlaugh 3y ago
      The US orchestrated a coup in Iran and later helped Iraq invade. All for oil money.
      - thereddaikon 3y ago
        >Claims the US was invading countries in the middle east >Lists things that isn't invading the middle east.
        dontlaugh 3y ago
        I’m describing the beginning of a process that later included direct invasion. Arming and goading Iraq is more covert, but still ends up with an invasion.
simne 3y ago
Well, Ukraine is not near US, but Ukraine asked US for support, trying to de-occupy Ukrainian territory, which is defined and agreed by dozen of international treaties. Absolutely same thing happen at Persian Gulf, allies asked for support from US and help arrived.
- dontlaugh 3y ago
  After the US supported a coup in 2014, installing a government and military structure that would help NATO push east (despite previous agreement) and later violate the Minsk agreements. The world would be a better place if you stayed at home.
  - simne 3y ago
    Could you give adequate sources, how you decide that 2014 was coup?
    - dontlaugh 3y ago
      Even Jacobin has a decent article https://jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea https://jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia... One of its most notable events was the burning of a trade union building by self-proclaimed neo-Nazis. When fascists kill trade unionists and then end up part of the army, it tends to be a coup.
      - simne 3y ago
        This is Russian propaganda. In reality, crime gangs supported by Russians, first tried to use firearms on maidan, and also had large supply of flammable fluid. But when feel resistance, these gangs tried to hide in trade union building with those flammable fluid barrels, and just accidentally burned themselves, and maidan activists tried to rescue ALL people when burning happen. Only propagandist sources could consider trade unions storing flammable fluid barrels in building full of people, when unrest happen.
  - dataworm 3y ago

Also, what was the US navy even doing there? The Persian Gulf is nowhere near the US. It's as if Iran had their navy parked on the US east coast, it would be seen as an outrage immediately.

School-Cotton 3y ago

The Persian Gulf, despite the name, is not Iranian territorial waters. Anybody can go there. Iran would be well within its rights to send its warships into the Atlantic Ocean, yes.

dontlaugh 3y ago
And what do you think the reaction of Americans would be if that happened? And especially if those warships were prepared to shoot?
- School-Cotton 3y ago
  It would be a minor news article that most people would not care about, just like when China/Russia sail near US territory in the Pacific (which actually does happen).
- switch007 3y ago
  American foreign policy is fully subscribed to the idea of American exceptionalism, as are many of their citizens and media outlets. Hypocrisy means nothing to them and won’t shame them in to not doing something
- t0mas88 3y ago
  This happens all the time. There is a documentary for example on the HMS Elizabeth carrier from the UK and how they deliberately navigated through Crimea waters (together with the Dutch navy) to make a point that they're allowed to do so because that water is Ukrainian and not Russian. In the same documentary you also see Chinese ships follow around the British group, and Russian jets overflying it. All in international waters, all legal, both not appreciated by the UK side of things.
  - Tangurena2 3y ago
    The Montreux Convention[0] prohibits large warships from transiting the Bosporous Strait. That carrier displaces 65,000 tons, the upper limit of the treaty only permits warships of 15,000 tons or less. The UK is one of the signatories to that treaty. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Straits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_... 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Elizabeth-class_aircraft_carrier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Elizabeth-class_aircraft...
    - metabagel 3y ago
      It was actually the HMS Defender, a destroyer, which sailed into the Black Sea, and the Royal Netherlands Navy’s HNLMS Evertsen, a frigate.
    - t0mas88 3y ago
      Ah yes, it were two ships part of the Queen Elizabeth strike group, but not the carrier itself. The command was given by the admiral that was on board the Elizabeth. Now that you write that it makes sense why they would send only two ships and not move the group around there.
cherryteastain 3y ago
US seizes Iranian cargo on even non Iranian vessels [1] with impunity. Iran sending warships would be as harshly responded to as the Cuban Missile Crisis. [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-confiscates-iran-oil-cargo-tanker-amid-tehran-tensions-sources-2023-04-28/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-confiscates-ira...

Tangurena2 3y ago

25% of the world's crude oil was shipped out of the Gulf at that time. The Iran-Iraq war had caused the prices of crude to skyrocket as many insurance companies refused to cover any shipping in the region. So the US felt compelled to protect the exports of crude oil from "friendly" nations. While continuing to blockade Iranian imports/exports. For more details on the political situation at that time, I recommend reading The Persian Puzzle by Pollack. https://www.amazon.com/Persian-Puzzle-Conflict-Between-America/dp/0812973364 https://www.amazon.com/Persian-Puzzle-Conflict-Between-Ameri... Additionally, to help explain how messed up the shoot-down was, Sources of Power by Klein. https://www.amazon.com/Sources-Power-20th-Anniversary-Decisions-ebook/dp/B08BT2GHXS/ https://www.amazon.com/Sources-Power-20th-Anniversary-Decisi...

thereddaikon 3y ago

One of the main jobs of the USN is to protect commercial shipping lanes. This is of US national interest because a lot of commerce flows through international shipping lanes. Its not unique to the US either. Its a historical duty of most nation's blue water navies. The persian gulf does not belong to Iran. Its international waters. But they have a history of using piracy in the persian gulf as a tool of the state and generally acting a destabilizing force in the area. So the US, and other nations often patrol the region to protect civilian shipping.

dontlaugh 3y ago
Maybe the US shouldn't have invaded several countries in the region and encircled Iran.
- thereddaikon 3y ago
  This was in the 1980's. Who had the US invaded in the middle east?
  - dontlaugh 3y ago
    The US orchestrated a coup in Iran and later helped Iraq invade. All for oil money.
    - thereddaikon 3y ago
      >Claims the US was invading countries in the middle east >Lists things that isn't invading the middle east.
      - dontlaugh 3y ago
        I’m describing the beginning of a process that later included direct invasion. Arming and goading Iraq is more covert, but still ends up with an invasion.

simne 3y ago

Well, Ukraine is not near US, but Ukraine asked US for support, trying to de-occupy Ukrainian territory, which is defined and agreed by dozen of international treaties. Absolutely same thing happen at Persian Gulf, allies asked for support from US and help arrived.

dontlaugh 3y ago
After the US supported a coup in 2014, installing a government and military structure that would help NATO push east (despite previous agreement) and later violate the Minsk agreements. The world would be a better place if you stayed at home.
- simne 3y ago
  Could you give adequate sources, how you decide that 2014 was coup?
  - dontlaugh 3y ago
    Even Jacobin has a decent article https://jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea https://jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia... One of its most notable events was the burning of a trade union building by self-proclaimed neo-Nazis. When fascists kill trade unionists and then end up part of the army, it tends to be a coup.
    - simne 3y ago
      This is Russian propaganda. In reality, crime gangs supported by Russians, first tried to use firearms on maidan, and also had large supply of flammable fluid. But when feel resistance, these gangs tried to hide in trade union building with those flammable fluid barrels, and just accidentally burned themselves, and maidan activists tried to rescue ALL people when burning happen. Only propagandist sources could consider trade unions storing flammable fluid barrels in building full of people, when unrest happen.
- dataworm 3y ago