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Imagine being outside the US and thinking "prove you're an incorporated business, prove the major players in your company exist, and fill out this tax form for

Imagine being outside the US and thinking "prove you're an incorporated business, prove the major players in your company exist, and fill out this tax form for foreigners" ...is "extra hoops" and "really difficult and obnoxious" > (BTW, I am not based in the US, so "W8 BEN" reads like Klingon to me). If only there were technology to look up what 'W8 BEN' means in seconds

dukeyukey 3y ago
Just saying, the UK has a form of business called a "Sole Trader" where you don't even need to notify the government about until it's tax time. Something like a "Certificate of incorporation" doesn't even exist for that. So yeah, sometimes it fucks things up.
- ljm 3y ago
  In the UK you can register whatever limited liability company you like on Companies House without any formal process except handling tax accounts (or sometimes VAT). No proof required at all for this, you’ll only need it to set up a company bank account (and that will just be notarised ID). It just so happens that the UK is therefore an incredibly easy place to dodge tax if you are so inclined.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
lmm 3y ago
> Imagine being outside the US and thinking "prove you're an incorporated business, prove the major players in your company exist, and fill out this tax form for foreigners" > ...is "extra hoops" and "really difficult and obnoxious" Compare with how willing US citizens or businesses are to comply with similarly basic things when another country asks for them.
- KingOfCoders 3y ago
  Selling on Amazon in dozens of countries requires only one from, that from the US. No other country. Even if I don't sell in the US. Even if I never go to the US. Even if I have no company in the US. Imagine everyone in the US selling on Amazon needing to sign a German form, and a French form, and a UK form, and a Spanish form etc. with no intention to sell in these countries.
BiteCode_dev 3y ago
From a french perspective, that seems like tuesday.
geden 3y ago
W-8BEN form is the most obnoxious form I've ever seen. It's written in incredibly opaque and obtuse language and covers far too many scenarios. And the most incredibly annoying thing about it is that for most UK companies (dont' forget if you are a limited company you need the W-8BEN-E variant!) you probably only have to fill in about 5 short fields. So it only really needs to be half a page. However working out which fields is virtually impossible and I'm still not entirely sure I fill it out correctly.
notahacker 3y ago
If every other payment provider accepts the vendor's terms and that the vendor already has KYC details on file with its US-authorised payment gateway, AMEX requiring signed scanned copies of its own payment terms and multiple forms of identity to be individually emailed to them for each and every transaction is the definition of 'extra hoops', and it seems quite reasonable to consider it difficult and obnoxious. For a lot of transaction sizes it isn't really worth the extra effort, particularly as filling in forms like the W8 BEN E is the kind of work people tend to pay their accountant - quite possibly more than the value of the SaaS subscription - to do. (As someone who happily prepares his own tax returns once a year, the W8 BEN E is not a particularly straightforward form to fill in for comparatively little benefit)

dukeyukey 3y ago

Just saying, the UK has a form of business called a "Sole Trader" where you don't even need to notify the government about until it's tax time. Something like a "Certificate of incorporation" doesn't even exist for that. So yeah, sometimes it fucks things up.

ljm 3y ago
In the UK you can register whatever limited liability company you like on Companies House without any formal process except handling tax accounts (or sometimes VAT). No proof required at all for this, you’ll only need it to set up a company bank account (and that will just be notarised ID). It just so happens that the UK is therefore an incredibly easy place to dodge tax if you are so inclined.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

lmm 3y ago

> Imagine being outside the US and thinking "prove you're an incorporated business, prove the major players in your company exist, and fill out this tax form for foreigners" > ...is "extra hoops" and "really difficult and obnoxious" Compare with how willing US citizens or businesses are to comply with similarly basic things when another country asks for them.

KingOfCoders 3y ago
Selling on Amazon in dozens of countries requires only one from, that from the US. No other country. Even if I don't sell in the US. Even if I never go to the US. Even if I have no company in the US. Imagine everyone in the US selling on Amazon needing to sign a German form, and a French form, and a UK form, and a Spanish form etc. with no intention to sell in these countries.

BiteCode_dev 3y ago

From a french perspective, that seems like tuesday.

geden 3y ago

W-8BEN form is the most obnoxious form I've ever seen. It's written in incredibly opaque and obtuse language and covers far too many scenarios. And the most incredibly annoying thing about it is that for most UK companies (dont' forget if you are a limited company you need the W-8BEN-E variant!) you probably only have to fill in about 5 short fields. So it only really needs to be half a page. However working out which fields is virtually impossible and I'm still not entirely sure I fill it out correctly.

notahacker 3y ago

If every other payment provider accepts the vendor's terms and that the vendor already has KYC details on file with its US-authorised payment gateway, AMEX requiring signed scanned copies of its own payment terms and multiple forms of identity to be individually emailed to them for each and every transaction is the definition of 'extra hoops', and it seems quite reasonable to consider it difficult and obnoxious. For a lot of transaction sizes it isn't really worth the extra effort, particularly as filling in forms like the W8 BEN E is the kind of work people tend to pay their accountant - quite possibly more than the value of the SaaS subscription - to do. (As someone who happily prepares his own tax returns once a year, the W8 BEN E is not a particularly straightforward form to fill in for comparatively little benefit)