4 ms·

Broadly, nihilism rejects purpose and meaning. I don't see how one can justify we "move on with living better lives" within such a worldview (i.e. why act that

Broadly, nihilism rejects purpose and meaning. I don't see how one can justify we "move on with living better lives" within such a worldview (i.e. why act that way when nothing matters?).

tptacek 3y ago
What the last two comments are really saying is that "nihilism" isn't the right word for the state you enter when you give up on developing an accurate picture of the world from luridly presented tragedies in news stories.
- matt_j 3y ago
  The right word would be "apathy".
  - tptacek 3y ago
    No, that's not at all right.
injeolmi_love 3y ago
There’s many forms of nihilism, and purpose nihilism wasn’t the subject of my comment. A Nihilist is more stable than you think. A tree doesn’t need purpose to grow, and neither does a human. Instead they follow a process that’s expressed by the body in response to the environment. For humans we not only have physical sensation but also memories, ideas, and thoughts. Without a worldview these all still happen, and your body will still react to your thoughts and sensations without a purpose. A healthy Nihilist would not feel sad about having no meaning, since they never had one anyway; on reflection, they might feel happy that there’s no obligation to respond other than how their situation moves them to. A Nihilist can do what is morally right without the restrictions of a purpose that proscribes them to do otherwise.
- kuchenbecker 3y ago
  I'm curious how you reconcile the explicit rejection of morality in Nihilism with your personal morality. I feel these are in conflict. --- Longer take: Defining what is morally right requires value judgement, and Nihilism rejects morality. What Is (facts) can't tell us what we ought to do. [1] To build a moral framework on what one ought to do, you must necessarily ascribe meaning and value judgement otherwise it can't claim to be moral and it would merely be actions you perform devoid of meaning. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is%E2%80%93ought_problem https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is%E2%80%93ought_problem
  - injeolmi_love 3y ago
    There isn’t a fundamental difference between ought/is. Both moral judgements and facts are based on reasoned beliefs. Why do you think meaning is required for making a value judgement? I can very easily claim that killing humans is wrong without relying on any metaphysics, just like I can claim the sky is blue. Both are beliefs based on reasons; meaning can be discarded.
    - kuchenbecker 3y ago
      That meaning can be discarded doesn't imply it ought to be discarded. --- Morals/meaning have a shaky absolute foundation, in that deep down nothing probably matters and the universe is indifferent. However I'm a person, born in modern society; everything has relative meaning even if the epistemological foundations are shaky. I see Nihilism similar the mathematicians trying to prove foundational math [1], and similarly doubting it's actually fundamental. Yet here we are using math to amazing things! Math doesn't need to be true for it to be useful. I find useful things valuable. Meaning, in particular shared meaning, is similarly valuable and worth pursuing even if they can't be proven. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory
scotty79 3y ago
Nothing objectively matters. You are free to invent things and ascribe them meaning. Meaninglessness is a discovery, meaning is a creation.
akoboldfrying 3y ago
>why act that way when nothing matters? I agree but I think the breakdown is even stronger than that: Nihilism gives you no way to decide what is "better" in the first place.

Broadly, nihilism rejects purpose and meaning. I don't see how one can justify we "move on with living better lives" within such a worldview (i.e. why act that way when nothing matters?).

tptacek 3y ago

What the last two comments are really saying is that "nihilism" isn't the right word for the state you enter when you give up on developing an accurate picture of the world from luridly presented tragedies in news stories.

matt_j 3y ago
The right word would be "apathy".
- tptacek 3y ago
  No, that's not at all right.

injeolmi_love 3y ago

There’s many forms of nihilism, and purpose nihilism wasn’t the subject of my comment. A Nihilist is more stable than you think. A tree doesn’t need purpose to grow, and neither does a human. Instead they follow a process that’s expressed by the body in response to the environment. For humans we not only have physical sensation but also memories, ideas, and thoughts. Without a worldview these all still happen, and your body will still react to your thoughts and sensations without a purpose. A healthy Nihilist would not feel sad about having no meaning, since they never had one anyway; on reflection, they might feel happy that there’s no obligation to respond other than how their situation moves them to. A Nihilist can do what is morally right without the restrictions of a purpose that proscribes them to do otherwise.

kuchenbecker 3y ago
I'm curious how you reconcile the explicit rejection of morality in Nihilism with your personal morality. I feel these are in conflict. --- Longer take: Defining what is morally right requires value judgement, and Nihilism rejects morality. What Is (facts) can't tell us what we ought to do. [1] To build a moral framework on what one ought to do, you must necessarily ascribe meaning and value judgement otherwise it can't claim to be moral and it would merely be actions you perform devoid of meaning. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is%E2%80%93ought_problem https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is%E2%80%93ought_problem
- injeolmi_love 3y ago
  There isn’t a fundamental difference between ought/is. Both moral judgements and facts are based on reasoned beliefs. Why do you think meaning is required for making a value judgement? I can very easily claim that killing humans is wrong without relying on any metaphysics, just like I can claim the sky is blue. Both are beliefs based on reasons; meaning can be discarded.
  - kuchenbecker 3y ago
    That meaning can be discarded doesn't imply it ought to be discarded. --- Morals/meaning have a shaky absolute foundation, in that deep down nothing probably matters and the universe is indifferent. However I'm a person, born in modern society; everything has relative meaning even if the epistemological foundations are shaky. I see Nihilism similar the mathematicians trying to prove foundational math [1], and similarly doubting it's actually fundamental. Yet here we are using math to amazing things! Math doesn't need to be true for it to be useful. I find useful things valuable. Meaning, in particular shared meaning, is similarly valuable and worth pursuing even if they can't be proven. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory

scotty79 3y ago

Nothing objectively matters. You are free to invent things and ascribe them meaning. Meaninglessness is a discovery, meaning is a creation.

akoboldfrying 3y ago

>why act that way when nothing matters? I agree but I think the breakdown is even stronger than that: Nihilism gives you no way to decide what is "better" in the first place.