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The whole argument is about “words and gesturing” aka the prevailing attitudes regarding which qualities and behaviors are supported/celebrated and have power i

The whole argument is about “words and gesturing” aka the prevailing attitudes regarding which qualities and behaviors are supported/celebrated and have power in discourse. I don’t think the parent comment was trying to say that when the mentality pendulum swung after the US civil war era in the direction of the oppressed (as they claimed it did), suddenly the liberated former slaves became the ones in power of controlling politics/economy/etc. That aside, yeah, you are correct, in the actual practice the rich and powerful are rich and powerful. The difference that the pendulum makes is about whether they are treated by the public as Fords and Rockefellers or as Musks and Thiels, which is just about the prevailing attitudes.

the_af 3y ago
Understood, but what I'm saying is that it's hypocritical and shallow gesturing. Just words, and not even deeply felt. In practice the world still admires the rich and powerful. Re: the Musks and Thiels of this world, it probably doesn't help their public image that the modern world makes their bizarre opinions and outright arrogance more easily communicated. If Ford was arrogant or held freakish opinions, it was a little harder for the common man to find out. Now Musk can call a scuba diver a pedophile or spout conspiracy theories and this reaches tons of people almost immediately.
- filoleg 3y ago
  That’s a really good point I haven’t thought about before. For all I know, Ford indeed could’ve been even less revered than Musks and Thiels in the timeline where internet was already commonplace back then. Legitimately thanks for bringing it up. That makes quite a lot of things about the current time more difficult to comprehend using historical precedence. Because a lot of the fundamental things about living in our present time are exactly the same, yet unprecedented in significant ways. I guess the same could be said about almost any time period in history though.

the_af 3y ago

Understood, but what I'm saying is that it's hypocritical and shallow gesturing. Just words, and not even deeply felt. In practice the world still admires the rich and powerful. Re: the Musks and Thiels of this world, it probably doesn't help their public image that the modern world makes their bizarre opinions and outright arrogance more easily communicated. If Ford was arrogant or held freakish opinions, it was a little harder for the common man to find out. Now Musk can call a scuba diver a pedophile or spout conspiracy theories and this reaches tons of people almost immediately.

filoleg 3y ago
That’s a really good point I haven’t thought about before. For all I know, Ford indeed could’ve been even less revered than Musks and Thiels in the timeline where internet was already commonplace back then. Legitimately thanks for bringing it up. That makes quite a lot of things about the current time more difficult to comprehend using historical precedence. Because a lot of the fundamental things about living in our present time are exactly the same, yet unprecedented in significant ways. I guess the same could be said about almost any time period in history though.