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No, I didn't :) If this was an "occasional" problem, there wouldn't have been a dozen blog posts on HN about it in the last week (least of all this one). If hu

by toast76 15y ago

No, I didn't :) If this was an "occasional" problem, there wouldn't have been a dozen blog posts on HN about it in the last week (least of all this one). If humans are doing anything sub-optimally that's something technology can help improve. The more common the problem, the more likely there is a common solution. If everyone wants to use email as a todo list, you have two options: 1. tell everyone not to 2. build it Option 1 will not work.

18pfsmt 15y ago
I don't think many of us on HN want to use email as a ToDo list, but there are other people that we work for or with that tend to use email in this way. For example, my father is a fortune-500-exec-type (and an engineer), and he can't seem to grasp the idea of using a unique subject line (this led me to tell him, "don't email, just call"). There are also people that use the "email this article" function to share articles with you; I immediately delete such emails (I don't do html email), and let them know, but they persist. The issue reminds me of thread-jacking on forums leading to the idea that "forum software is broken." In other words, there are a myriad of poor choices being made by people that either cause security issues, or inefficiencies using email as a medium that is suboptimal.
aethr 15y ago
Email is not "broken". Users are not "broken". Email is simply a method for people to communicate. People are messy. Put two of them together (communication) and the messiness increases exponentially. Have you ever seen two people arguing, and then it turns out (much later) they were arguing about two completely different things, and they are actually agreeing with each other? This isn't a technology problem, speech isn't "broken". Have you ever sent a text message, and the other person didn't respond for a few hours and you started to think that they were upset, or something you said was wrong etc. Then it turns out their phone was turned off or they were in a movie theatre. Everything was fine! Does this mean people are "broken"? The argument going on in this thread is far too black and white to apply to reality. People live in the grey area. Part of being human is managing the messiness of interacting with other people.
- ljoshua 15y ago
  Thanks for the grounding aethr. And toast76 brings up very good points. What I think we've seen recently with all the related articles on HN is a dichotomy of how we are viewing the problem. Most describe it from the perspective of email not fulfilling our technical needs (security, threading, etc.) which is true. There is a lot of work to be done there. I just want to help shed light on a broader problem, where we're shoehorning email into a very difficult problem that is brought on heavily by our own actions.

by toast76 15y ago

18pfsmt 15y ago

I don't think many of us on HN want to use email as a ToDo list, but there are other people that we work for or with that tend to use email in this way. For example, my father is a fortune-500-exec-type (and an engineer), and he can't seem to grasp the idea of using a unique subject line (this led me to tell him, "don't email, just call"). There are also people that use the "email this article" function to share articles with you; I immediately delete such emails (I don't do html email), and let them know, but they persist. The issue reminds me of thread-jacking on forums leading to the idea that "forum software is broken." In other words, there are a myriad of poor choices being made by people that either cause security issues, or inefficiencies using email as a medium that is suboptimal.

aethr 15y ago

Email is not "broken". Users are not "broken". Email is simply a method for people to communicate. People are messy. Put two of them together (communication) and the messiness increases exponentially. Have you ever seen two people arguing, and then it turns out (much later) they were arguing about two completely different things, and they are actually agreeing with each other? This isn't a technology problem, speech isn't "broken". Have you ever sent a text message, and the other person didn't respond for a few hours and you started to think that they were upset, or something you said was wrong etc. Then it turns out their phone was turned off or they were in a movie theatre. Everything was fine! Does this mean people are "broken"? The argument going on in this thread is far too black and white to apply to reality. People live in the grey area. Part of being human is managing the messiness of interacting with other people.

ljoshua 15y ago
Thanks for the grounding aethr. And toast76 brings up very good points. What I think we've seen recently with all the related articles on HN is a dichotomy of how we are viewing the problem. Most describe it from the perspective of email not fulfilling our technical needs (security, threading, etc.) which is true. There is a lot of work to be done there. I just want to help shed light on a broader problem, where we're shoehorning email into a very difficult problem that is brought on heavily by our own actions.