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> Most people intuitively understand that if someone is not easily replaceable, they have more leverage. If there is a line of replacements out the door, they h

> Most people intuitively understand that if someone is not easily replaceable, they have more leverage. If there is a line of replacements out the door, they have little leverage. There often is not a line of replacements out the door, yet, despite this, wages are still too low. Entire industries have started to die because of this - like for instance certain north eastern crab fisheries relied on cheap migrant labor that dried up, couldn't find anyone to do it, even though technically "anyone" could do the job. Why haven't workers capitalized on this "leverage" you speak of to get higher wages? Are they just too dumb/lazy?

s1artibartfast 3y ago
I don't see that as contradicting what I said at all. Sometimes industries can't compete on wages and go out of business. Thats an example of workers having leverage. The workers did get a higher wage, just not on a crab boat. If you want to stereotype workers, they are smart and lazy. nobody wants to work longer and harder to make less, when they could work less and make more. To counter your question, why do you think the boat owners went out of business? Were the owners just to stupid or stubborn to pay more? That they would rather lose their investment, and often their own livelihood, rather than pay workers more?
- JohnMakin 3y ago
  In this specific example they tried to pay more but couldn’t find anyone for a lot of different reasons. They had an industry that was propped up by artificially cheap labor (migrants with no other options). There are other artificially cheap labor markets that big companies prey on - like labor markets where the workers dont make enough to actually eat so the companies employ people to tell the workers how to use state welfare more effectively. It’s a complete farce at best for people to assume this is pure capitalism working as intended for these labor markets to exist at all. it’s either backed by the state or by really nasty external forces that give segments of people very few other options. You can employ people and pay them enough to survive and still make a profit, yet there are weird segments of the internet that insist some types of work must be done on the backs of essentially slave labor. if that’s truly the case it should change.
medvezhenok 3y ago
There has to be enough excess profit in an industry in order for a worker shortage to force the wages up. North eastern crab fisheries are likely not profitable enough (due to market rate for their products, or whatever it is), so they will likely fold/go out of business instead (unless automation can save/increase the productivity per worker, and then they can stay in business but with fewer workers - who will be better remunerated).
- JohnMakin 3y ago
  You precisely nailed it. some of these industries and companies shouldnt survive as they are but we insist they should.

s1artibartfast 3y ago

I don't see that as contradicting what I said at all. Sometimes industries can't compete on wages and go out of business. Thats an example of workers having leverage. The workers did get a higher wage, just not on a crab boat. If you want to stereotype workers, they are smart and lazy. nobody wants to work longer and harder to make less, when they could work less and make more. To counter your question, why do you think the boat owners went out of business? Were the owners just to stupid or stubborn to pay more? That they would rather lose their investment, and often their own livelihood, rather than pay workers more?

JohnMakin 3y ago
In this specific example they tried to pay more but couldn’t find anyone for a lot of different reasons. They had an industry that was propped up by artificially cheap labor (migrants with no other options). There are other artificially cheap labor markets that big companies prey on - like labor markets where the workers dont make enough to actually eat so the companies employ people to tell the workers how to use state welfare more effectively. It’s a complete farce at best for people to assume this is pure capitalism working as intended for these labor markets to exist at all. it’s either backed by the state or by really nasty external forces that give segments of people very few other options. You can employ people and pay them enough to survive and still make a profit, yet there are weird segments of the internet that insist some types of work must be done on the backs of essentially slave labor. if that’s truly the case it should change.

medvezhenok 3y ago

There has to be enough excess profit in an industry in order for a worker shortage to force the wages up. North eastern crab fisheries are likely not profitable enough (due to market rate for their products, or whatever it is), so they will likely fold/go out of business instead (unless automation can save/increase the productivity per worker, and then they can stay in business but with fewer workers - who will be better remunerated).

JohnMakin 3y ago
You precisely nailed it. some of these industries and companies shouldnt survive as they are but we insist they should.