5 ms·

What's the difference? The end result is the same for the worker.

njovin 3y ago
The difference is that the by allowing business to pay under minimum wage (in some states), the business get to create an adversarial relationship between the staff and the customers, and blame the customers when staff don't make as much money as they'd hoped. This is IMO bad for everyone's happiness. Servers get upset with customers for not tipping enough and customers get to feel pressure and anxiety over tipping. Compare that to a world where the employer has to actually pay their employees their full wage (like literally every other industry), and now you have predictable wages and less friction throughout the dining experience.
- fishtacos 3y ago
  NO s**. That was my point. I apologize for the directness here, but you are out of touch with reality. If there is no political will to increase baseline wages for service staff, then the end result is exactly the same - employees will blame bad tippers because of the (what should be abnormal) tipping culture in the US, and are dependent on employers for their hours of work, so they'll lay blame wherever available. I waited tables at semi-high-end restaurants. Worked doubles opening and closing from 10a to 12p... averaged 11/h on the busiest nights after carrying trays upon heavy trays for what felt like hours on end. I KNOW what I'm talking about from personal experience. I didn't mind the work, shift-leader, blah blah blah. I had colleagues walking away with 15 bucks TOTAL after a 5 hour shift, but it was averaged out to at least 7.35/h bi-weekly, so you can imagine the end result. It's not sustainable. It's denigrating.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  > Compare that to a world where the employer has to actually pay their employees their full wage (like literally every other industry), and now you have predictable wages and less friction throughout the dining experience. This world has existed on the west coast of the US for a long time, and tip expectations have still marched upwards.
  - fishtacos 3y ago
    Cool - The West Coast of the US isn't the only part of the US.
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      It is an example that disproves njovin’s claim, since tipping is a social phenomenon.
      - fishtacos 3y ago
        Tipping on top of normal wages is normal in all of Europe, our closest Western cousins. I come from Eastern Europe, and I always tip (perhaps out of a Western custom, but also becaause I know how s** wages are there, so out of respect for acknowledging their crap wages and their service, even if I know they are paid a regular base wage). This is not what we're talking about at all. Tipping is not simply a social phenomenon when other people's living circumstances depend on it. It becomes an economic necessity when (as the RTFA mentioned, if you'd read it) it becomes required to make a living wage.
justsomehnguy 3y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38453088 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38453088

The difference is that the by allowing business to pay under minimum wage (in some states), the business get to create an adversarial relationship between the staff and the customers, and blame the customers when staff don't make as much money as they'd hoped. This is IMO bad for everyone's happiness. Servers get upset with customers for not tipping enough and customers get to feel pressure and anxiety over tipping. Compare that to a world where the employer has to actually pay their employees their full wage (like literally every other industry), and now you have predictable wages and less friction throughout the dining experience.

fishtacos 3y ago
NO s**. That was my point. I apologize for the directness here, but you are out of touch with reality. If there is no political will to increase baseline wages for service staff, then the end result is exactly the same - employees will blame bad tippers because of the (what should be abnormal) tipping culture in the US, and are dependent on employers for their hours of work, so they'll lay blame wherever available. I waited tables at semi-high-end restaurants. Worked doubles opening and closing from 10a to 12p... averaged 11/h on the busiest nights after carrying trays upon heavy trays for what felt like hours on end. I KNOW what I'm talking about from personal experience. I didn't mind the work, shift-leader, blah blah blah. I had colleagues walking away with 15 bucks TOTAL after a 5 hour shift, but it was averaged out to at least 7.35/h bi-weekly, so you can imagine the end result. It's not sustainable. It's denigrating.
lotsofpulp 3y ago
> Compare that to a world where the employer has to actually pay their employees their full wage (like literally every other industry), and now you have predictable wages and less friction throughout the dining experience. This world has existed on the west coast of the US for a long time, and tip expectations have still marched upwards.
- fishtacos 3y ago
  Cool - The West Coast of the US isn't the only part of the US.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    It is an example that disproves njovin’s claim, since tipping is a social phenomenon.
    - fishtacos 3y ago
      Tipping on top of normal wages is normal in all of Europe, our closest Western cousins. I come from Eastern Europe, and I always tip (perhaps out of a Western custom, but also becaause I know how s** wages are there, so out of respect for acknowledging their crap wages and their service, even if I know they are paid a regular base wage). This is not what we're talking about at all. Tipping is not simply a social phenomenon when other people's living circumstances depend on it. It becomes an economic necessity when (as the RTFA mentioned, if you'd read it) it becomes required to make a living wage.

justsomehnguy 3y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38453088 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38453088