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Amazing that a US colleague of mine was fired for saying "fuck" to another US colleague. Really free country that with protected speech... When people say free

by baz00 3y ago

Amazing that a US colleague of mine was fired for saying "fuck" to another US colleague. Really free country that with protected speech... When people say freedom in the US it tends to be people free to be assholes to their fellow countrymen. Edit: I have freedom from not being shot in the face in Costco too! That's my favourite freedom.

RobertRoberts 3y ago
Freedom of speech is about liberty of life, not liberty of opportunity. Two totally different things.
- baz00 3y ago
  What do you think I can't say here? And why was my colleague fired? Surely his speech was protected?
  - vdqtp3 3y ago
    Why don't you just Google "uk man arrested for tweet" and you'll find plenty. From the Verge[1]: Section 127 of the Communications Act makes it an offense to send public messages of a “grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character,” [1] https://www.theverge.com/2022/2/7/22912054/uk-grossly-offensive-tweet-prosecution-section-127-2003-communications-act https://www.theverge.com/2022/2/7/22912054/uk-grossly-offens...
    - baz00 3y ago
      Yeah actually read the tweets. They were grossly offensive, threatening violence and nasty as hell. You think that's ok? One of them for reference: "kill yourself before I do; rape is the last of your worries; I’ve just got out of prison and would happily do more time to see you berried.”
      - vdqtp3 3y ago
        Do I think threats are acceptable, no - and true threats aren't considered protected free speech. ("true threats first amendment" would be your search term, should you like to learn more) Do I think offensive, nasty, hateful speech is free speech? Absolutely. Here's an example of one that I think is an egregious violation of the principle of free speech: https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/31/23004339/uk-twitter-user-sentenced-grossly-offensive-tweet-tom-moore-joseph-kelly https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/31/23004339/uk-twitter-user-...
        baz00 3y ago
        I don't think you have the context for that one to understand it and the sensitivity around it. Think Northern Ireland. Any absolutist position is a problem. This is fairly balanced and the outcome is proportionate.
vdqtp3 3y ago
You get that there's a difference between the men with guns coming to put you in a cage, and your employer deciding they don't like you anymore, right?
- baz00 3y ago
  [flagged]
- foldr 3y ago
  I think most people in the UK are more worried about getting fired than they are worried about going to jail for a tweet, FWIW. (Although of course, in the UK your employer can’t fire you just because they decide that they “don’t like you anymore”.)
gillytech 3y ago
Sorry this really is a weak argument. First of all, "free speech" is not and shouldn't be considered absolute. Freedom to express your ideas, yes. Freedom to be obscene? No. We are not granted rights by the Government. We have natural rights and they are not to be infringed by the Government. That's how our Constitution is supposed to work and that's why we left England in the first place.
- janalsncm 3y ago
  Sure, some speech isn’t protected. You can’t threaten the President for example. But the fact is, the question of whether speech is or is not allowed is far too often a matter of commercial viability rather than objective political value. Look no further than Kanye West being “cancelled” only after a long history of racism and idiotic remarks. The profitability of his Yeezy shoes bought him a lot more free speech than you or I would ever be granted. Couple that with the fact that healthcare is usually at the mercy of your employer, and very few people in the U.S. truly have the liberty to say what they really think. And before you say there’s nothing worth saying which you would be fired for, ask yourself how long you could maintain good graces if you were known to be promoting unionization.
  - anon291 3y ago
    Actually, you can threaten the president. Several celebrities posted images of Trump beheaded and were not arrested, and were indeed met with wide acclaim.
    - janalsncm 3y ago
      It’s a felony in fact. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threatening_the_president_of_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threatening_the_president_of...
      - anon291 3y ago
        Doesn't seem enforced unless there's actual steps taken. I'm just saying what I've seen. I've heard many baseless threats made against various presidents and no one cares.
carlosjobim 3y ago
> Amazing that a US colleague of mine was fired for saying "fuck" to another US colleague. Really free country that with protected speech... Well did he sue? That's the only way he can get the government involved and see if his speech is protected or not. Edit: Do the down voters have problems understanding basic logic? The government can't protect anybody's free speech if they haven't been informed about a potential violation. I know most hackers think that the government is God, but they are neither all-seeing nor all-knowing. If you get fired in a way that violates your freedom of speech or violates labour rights, you have to sue and at least get the government involved before you complain about not having any rights. So did he or she sue?

by baz00 3y ago

RobertRoberts 3y ago

Freedom of speech is about liberty of life, not liberty of opportunity. Two totally different things.

baz00 3y ago
What do you think I can't say here? And why was my colleague fired? Surely his speech was protected?
- vdqtp3 3y ago
  Why don't you just Google "uk man arrested for tweet" and you'll find plenty. From the Verge[1]: Section 127 of the Communications Act makes it an offense to send public messages of a “grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character,” [1] https://www.theverge.com/2022/2/7/22912054/uk-grossly-offensive-tweet-prosecution-section-127-2003-communications-act https://www.theverge.com/2022/2/7/22912054/uk-grossly-offens...
  - baz00 3y ago
    Yeah actually read the tweets. They were grossly offensive, threatening violence and nasty as hell. You think that's ok? One of them for reference: "kill yourself before I do; rape is the last of your worries; I’ve just got out of prison and would happily do more time to see you berried.”
    - vdqtp3 3y ago
      Do I think threats are acceptable, no - and true threats aren't considered protected free speech. ("true threats first amendment" would be your search term, should you like to learn more) Do I think offensive, nasty, hateful speech is free speech? Absolutely. Here's an example of one that I think is an egregious violation of the principle of free speech: https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/31/23004339/uk-twitter-user-sentenced-grossly-offensive-tweet-tom-moore-joseph-kelly https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/31/23004339/uk-twitter-user-...
      - baz00 3y ago
        I don't think you have the context for that one to understand it and the sensitivity around it. Think Northern Ireland. Any absolutist position is a problem. This is fairly balanced and the outcome is proportionate.

vdqtp3 3y ago

You get that there's a difference between the men with guns coming to put you in a cage, and your employer deciding they don't like you anymore, right?

baz00 3y ago
[flagged]
foldr 3y ago
I think most people in the UK are more worried about getting fired than they are worried about going to jail for a tweet, FWIW. (Although of course, in the UK your employer can’t fire you just because they decide that they “don’t like you anymore”.)

gillytech 3y ago

Sorry this really is a weak argument. First of all, "free speech" is not and shouldn't be considered absolute. Freedom to express your ideas, yes. Freedom to be obscene? No. We are not granted rights by the Government. We have natural rights and they are not to be infringed by the Government. That's how our Constitution is supposed to work and that's why we left England in the first place.

janalsncm 3y ago
Sure, some speech isn’t protected. You can’t threaten the President for example. But the fact is, the question of whether speech is or is not allowed is far too often a matter of commercial viability rather than objective political value. Look no further than Kanye West being “cancelled” only after a long history of racism and idiotic remarks. The profitability of his Yeezy shoes bought him a lot more free speech than you or I would ever be granted. Couple that with the fact that healthcare is usually at the mercy of your employer, and very few people in the U.S. truly have the liberty to say what they really think. And before you say there’s nothing worth saying which you would be fired for, ask yourself how long you could maintain good graces if you were known to be promoting unionization.
- anon291 3y ago
  Actually, you can threaten the president. Several celebrities posted images of Trump beheaded and were not arrested, and were indeed met with wide acclaim.
  - janalsncm 3y ago
    It’s a felony in fact. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threatening_the_president_of_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threatening_the_president_of...
    - anon291 3y ago
      Doesn't seem enforced unless there's actual steps taken. I'm just saying what I've seen. I've heard many baseless threats made against various presidents and no one cares.

carlosjobim 3y ago

> Amazing that a US colleague of mine was fired for saying "fuck" to another US colleague. Really free country that with protected speech... Well did he sue? That's the only way he can get the government involved and see if his speech is protected or not. Edit: Do the down voters have problems understanding basic logic? The government can't protect anybody's free speech if they haven't been informed about a potential violation. I know most hackers think that the government is God, but they are neither all-seeing nor all-knowing. If you get fired in a way that violates your freedom of speech or violates labour rights, you have to sue and at least get the government involved before you complain about not having any rights. So did he or she sue?