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Yeah. "He wouldn't have hit me if I had just kept my mouth shut, I know how angry it makes him when I ask about money." I want to say this position is despica

Yeah. "He wouldn't have hit me if I had just kept my mouth shut, I know how angry it makes him when I ask about money." I want to say this position is despicable, but that's not a very charitable reading. But I fail to see how 'making everything your own fault' is in any way a healthy mechanism for dealing with others. Other people DO make mistakes. Other people have loads that they ARE expected to carry. Other people ARE expected to comport themselves a certain way. This not only absolves anyone but yourself of any responsibility to do anything, but it also offers yourself up as a scapegoat to anyone who needs one.

boeingUH60 3y ago
Personally, I don't make bad things my own fault. But I consider them my responsibility to fix.
- blooalien 3y ago
  > "I don't make bad things my own fault. But I consider them my responsibility to fix." ^^^ This! It's only your fault if it's actually your fault - If the blame genuinely lies with someone else, there's nothing left to do but take actions to a) fix it, and b) ensure that it never happens again. Can't rely on others to fix things, because the fact is that most people simply won't even try.
  - hotsauceror 3y ago
    "Can't rely on others to fix things, because the fact is that most people simply won't even try." That is a much more charitable interpretation of this idea, and when I look at my own life that's pretty much where I am at. The bar for everyone else is zero. There never seem to be any consequences for others' laziness or stupidity, and the expectation is always that I will fix it. It's not fair of me to expect them to know or care what they're doing, or to fix what they've done, and it's unseemly to complain about it.
graeme 3y ago
I would read it as "My choices have caused me to be here, and I must rely on my choices not to keep me here" That obviously has limits; anything taken literally to an extreme does. For instance, Munger lost a nine year old son to cancer; I doubt he thought "This is my fault, I did this, if only I had acted differently". The central point of the quote is to believe you have agency. That if you are in a situation you do not like, you can act to get out of it. There are times when this isn't true, but if you act as if it is you'll be more likely to get out of such situations. And then you have to use human common sense to know when something is literally impossible. So, back to the example of someone abusive, you might think "it is my fault I am dealing with this person/situation" and consider what actions can get you out. I would distinguish this from victim blaming: First, you are doing it, not an outsider. Second, the point is not to feel shame for yourself, but consider positive actions.
mritchie712 3y ago
I'm talking strictly in a work setting. I don't absolve people, I just don't let myself stew over how it's their fault.
- hotsauceror 3y ago
  So now you have two workloads, and they have half a workload, and there are differing standards to which you and they are held? I admit that I come at this question from a very bitter place. I have been woken up many, many, many times at 3 AM to deal with a problem that someone else caused, out of sheer laziness or incompetence. Those people suffered no consequences. Had I applied the same level of due care to my own duties in fixing the problem, however, the consequences would have been different, and significant. It is difficult, in such circumstances, not to stew over things a bit.
  - jackothy 3y ago
    If you're gonna stew over something then that should be: How can I make sure this shit doesn't happen to me again? "What can I do about it?" is the focus. No point obsessing over the other person. I think that's what Munger was trying to say.
ls612 3y ago
The more charitable reading is that either you do have agency over how you got to where you are and how you can get out of it, in which case it is better to focus on believing what you do matters, or you don't, in which case it doesn't matter either way. That is why it's better to have a mindset of "I can change my situaion for the better" instead of "Life sucks I'm a victim".
- hotsauceror 3y ago
  If one person on a team consistently does poor quality work, and the others do not, I do not see the utility in blaming the high performing team members for not doing more to prevent the poor performer from making a mess, or in convincing them that the fault is theirs and that they should look inward to better understand what they did wrong. Each person is carrying their own part of the total load. That person has a duty of care, and is not exercising it. It's not about agency or helplessness.
  - jodrellblank 3y ago
    > "I do not see the utility in blaming the high performing team members for not doing more to prevent the poor performer from making a mess" The non-technical manager isn't able to do more to prevent it. Nor is the busy technical manager. The poor performer either isn't able or willing. There's no Superman coming to rescue you. You are the person on the planet who cares the most about the poor performer's effect on your life, and you know the quote about "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results". The utility of "blame" is questionable, but the choice is only do you consider yourself a victim of the poor performer with nothing you can do and have the same situation happen again and again, or do you recognise that you are in a position to act and prevent it? (If you want, you can then blame your choice not to act, when the situation predictably recurs, I guess). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4AUY-v1nsE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4AUY-v1nsE - "We are going to have to act, if we want to live in a different world"

boeingUH60 3y ago

Personally, I don't make bad things my own fault. But I consider them my responsibility to fix.

blooalien 3y ago
> "I don't make bad things my own fault. But I consider them my responsibility to fix." ^^^ This! It's only your fault if it's actually your fault - If the blame genuinely lies with someone else, there's nothing left to do but take actions to a) fix it, and b) ensure that it never happens again. Can't rely on others to fix things, because the fact is that most people simply won't even try.
- hotsauceror 3y ago
  "Can't rely on others to fix things, because the fact is that most people simply won't even try." That is a much more charitable interpretation of this idea, and when I look at my own life that's pretty much where I am at. The bar for everyone else is zero. There never seem to be any consequences for others' laziness or stupidity, and the expectation is always that I will fix it. It's not fair of me to expect them to know or care what they're doing, or to fix what they've done, and it's unseemly to complain about it.

graeme 3y ago

I would read it as "My choices have caused me to be here, and I must rely on my choices not to keep me here" That obviously has limits; anything taken literally to an extreme does. For instance, Munger lost a nine year old son to cancer; I doubt he thought "This is my fault, I did this, if only I had acted differently". The central point of the quote is to believe you have agency. That if you are in a situation you do not like, you can act to get out of it. There are times when this isn't true, but if you act as if it is you'll be more likely to get out of such situations. And then you have to use human common sense to know when something is literally impossible. So, back to the example of someone abusive, you might think "it is my fault I am dealing with this person/situation" and consider what actions can get you out. I would distinguish this from victim blaming: First, you are doing it, not an outsider. Second, the point is not to feel shame for yourself, but consider positive actions.

mritchie712 3y ago

I'm talking strictly in a work setting. I don't absolve people, I just don't let myself stew over how it's their fault.

hotsauceror 3y ago
So now you have two workloads, and they have half a workload, and there are differing standards to which you and they are held? I admit that I come at this question from a very bitter place. I have been woken up many, many, many times at 3 AM to deal with a problem that someone else caused, out of sheer laziness or incompetence. Those people suffered no consequences. Had I applied the same level of due care to my own duties in fixing the problem, however, the consequences would have been different, and significant. It is difficult, in such circumstances, not to stew over things a bit.
- jackothy 3y ago
  If you're gonna stew over something then that should be: How can I make sure this shit doesn't happen to me again? "What can I do about it?" is the focus. No point obsessing over the other person. I think that's what Munger was trying to say.

ls612 3y ago

The more charitable reading is that either you do have agency over how you got to where you are and how you can get out of it, in which case it is better to focus on believing what you do matters, or you don't, in which case it doesn't matter either way. That is why it's better to have a mindset of "I can change my situaion for the better" instead of "Life sucks I'm a victim".

hotsauceror 3y ago
If one person on a team consistently does poor quality work, and the others do not, I do not see the utility in blaming the high performing team members for not doing more to prevent the poor performer from making a mess, or in convincing them that the fault is theirs and that they should look inward to better understand what they did wrong. Each person is carrying their own part of the total load. That person has a duty of care, and is not exercising it. It's not about agency or helplessness.
- jodrellblank 3y ago
  > "I do not see the utility in blaming the high performing team members for not doing more to prevent the poor performer from making a mess" The non-technical manager isn't able to do more to prevent it. Nor is the busy technical manager. The poor performer either isn't able or willing. There's no Superman coming to rescue you. You are the person on the planet who cares the most about the poor performer's effect on your life, and you know the quote about "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results". The utility of "blame" is questionable, but the choice is only do you consider yourself a victim of the poor performer with nothing you can do and have the same situation happen again and again, or do you recognise that you are in a position to act and prevent it? (If you want, you can then blame your choice not to act, when the situation predictably recurs, I guess). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4AUY-v1nsE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4AUY-v1nsE - "We are going to have to act, if we want to live in a different world"