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I always find the "eye of the needle gate" deflection funny, because why would anyone use metaphor that to make such a general point?

kragen 3y ago
the gospels are uncontroversially full of metaphors and similes being used to make general points, generally attributed to jesus as in this case
- readthenotes1 3y ago
  Is "full" metaphorical there? Would "composed of" be more literal?
xp84 3y ago
Same. “It’s easier to close all your browser tabs in just 10 seconds, than it is for a rich person to get into heaven.” “It’s easier to grill a steak just right without checking it, than…” People are really desperate to believe this particular figure would like them…
booleandilemma 3y ago
You're asking why Jesus, the guy who speaks in parables, would use a metaphor to make a point?
- Jedd 3y ago
  More accurately, the question is why the unknown author of the book of Mark, who never claimed to have first or even second hand accounts of Jesus, used that metaphor in his story. The subsequent two usages by the anonymous authors of books Luke or Matthew clearly lifted that story from the earlier work - I don't think that's in dispute here.
- anonymous_sorry 3y ago
  The point is it doesn't make sense. "It's easier for a rich man to enter heaven than to park their Range Rover in a smallish garage". So... slightly tricky but perfectly doable? It's not an interesting enough thing to record/claim Jesus to have said. And why then are the disciples said to be so shocked and confused by the metaphor? "Woah there Jesus, you're saying it'll take a rich man a good 5 minutes of manoeuvring to get into heaven? Say it ain't so, son of Joe!"
  - gwd 3y ago
    The way I heard the "needle gate" interpretation is: 1. A camel normally is tall, covered in a tarp / saddle, and loads of baggage. 2. To get through the Needle Gate, a camel needs to take off all his baggage, saddle, and tarp, and then crawl through on his knees 3. So with a rich man: To get into heaven, he must take off all his worldly baggage (i.e., stop loving his wealth) and humble himself by crawling in on his knees. So at a certain level it does make sense; there is a sense in which that's exactly what Jesus asked the Rich Young Ruler to do.
    - moolcool 3y ago
      But then he would no longer be rich, so this doesn't really change the metaphor.
      - prewett 3y ago
        One can be rich (have a lot of money) without loving money, or to the point of the gate explanation, relying on money instead of God.
        anonymous_sorry 3y ago
        If you had a lot of money but loved the god described in the New Testament more, then wouldn't you give it all away to the poor and needy as Jesus says?
      - frank_nitti 3y ago
        Methinks they don’t want the rich man to have to give away his wealth, just to “love God more than the money”. So many in these comments (presumably wealthy or aspiring wealthy) seem desperate to assure themselves that wealth-hoarding is not inherently evil by His standards

kragen 3y ago

the gospels are uncontroversially full of metaphors and similes being used to make general points, generally attributed to jesus as in this case

readthenotes1 3y ago
Is "full" metaphorical there? Would "composed of" be more literal?

xp84 3y ago

Same. “It’s easier to close all your browser tabs in just 10 seconds, than it is for a rich person to get into heaven.” “It’s easier to grill a steak just right without checking it, than…” People are really desperate to believe this particular figure would like them…

booleandilemma 3y ago

You're asking why Jesus, the guy who speaks in parables, would use a metaphor to make a point?

Jedd 3y ago
More accurately, the question is why the unknown author of the book of Mark, who never claimed to have first or even second hand accounts of Jesus, used that metaphor in his story. The subsequent two usages by the anonymous authors of books Luke or Matthew clearly lifted that story from the earlier work - I don't think that's in dispute here.
anonymous_sorry 3y ago
The point is it doesn't make sense. "It's easier for a rich man to enter heaven than to park their Range Rover in a smallish garage". So... slightly tricky but perfectly doable? It's not an interesting enough thing to record/claim Jesus to have said. And why then are the disciples said to be so shocked and confused by the metaphor? "Woah there Jesus, you're saying it'll take a rich man a good 5 minutes of manoeuvring to get into heaven? Say it ain't so, son of Joe!"
- gwd 3y ago
  The way I heard the "needle gate" interpretation is: 1. A camel normally is tall, covered in a tarp / saddle, and loads of baggage. 2. To get through the Needle Gate, a camel needs to take off all his baggage, saddle, and tarp, and then crawl through on his knees 3. So with a rich man: To get into heaven, he must take off all his worldly baggage (i.e., stop loving his wealth) and humble himself by crawling in on his knees. So at a certain level it does make sense; there is a sense in which that's exactly what Jesus asked the Rich Young Ruler to do.
  - moolcool 3y ago
    But then he would no longer be rich, so this doesn't really change the metaphor.
    - prewett 3y ago
      One can be rich (have a lot of money) without loving money, or to the point of the gate explanation, relying on money instead of God.
      - anonymous_sorry 3y ago
        If you had a lot of money but loved the god described in the New Testament more, then wouldn't you give it all away to the poor and needy as Jesus says?
    - frank_nitti 3y ago
      Methinks they don’t want the rich man to have to give away his wealth, just to “love God more than the money”. So many in these comments (presumably wealthy or aspiring wealthy) seem desperate to assure themselves that wealth-hoarding is not inherently evil by His standards