8 ms·

OpenAI: Increased errors across API and ChatGPT

71 points by zeptonix 3y ago

bun_at_work 3y ago
> OK I have a table in postgresql and I am adding a trigger such that when an insert happens on that table, an insert happens on another table. The second table has a constraint. What happens to the first insert if the second insert violates the constraint? How can I get help with this now? Google result 1: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/77148711/create-a-trigger-on-insert-that-creates-another-trigger-on-a-different-table-in https://stackoverflow.com/questions/77148711/create-a-trigge... Google result 2: https://dba.stackexchange.com/questions/307448/postgresql-trigger-insert-on-another-table-after-update-and-update-other-tables https://dba.stackexchange.com/questions/307448/postgresql-tr... Like 90% of my questions like this are going to ChatGPT these days. I can figure it out via the docs, but ChatGPT is SO convenient for things like this.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- netcraft 3y ago
  Agreed that chatgpt is great for this kind of thing - a coworker is working on this GPT specifically for postgres https://chat.openai.com/g/g-uXYoYQEFi-sql-sage https://chat.openai.com/g/g-uXYoYQEFi-sql-sage But with it being down, my biggest advice would be to try it and see. something like dbfiddle.uk is perfect for these kinds of tests.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  > What happens to the first insert if the second insert violates the constraint? Try it and see? Why do you need an AI to help with this?
  - speedgoose 3y ago
    Why do you use an internet search engine when you can walk to the library?
    - rurp 3y ago
      The question at hand is pretty easy to test manually and the information you get is much more useful. You will get to see the exact behavior for yourself, can easily build on the test case as related questions come up, and you know the information you are getting is correct rather than a hallucination. Copying information from ChatGPT is the newer version of blindly copying answers from StackOverflow. It often works out ok and at times makes sense to do, but it can easily lead to software flaws and doesn't do much to build a better undersanding of the domain which is necessary to solve more difficult challenges that don't fit into a Q&A format well.
      - speedgoose 3y ago
        In my experience, I encounter more issues and waste more time when I fiddle on my own and try stuff compared to doing the same, but using chatGPT. There is a lot of knowledge that I don’t want to have expertise with. Sure, I could carefully read the PostgreSQL documentation about triggers and implement it myself, or I could get the job done in a few minutes and procrastinate on HN instead.
      - JoshuaDavid 3y ago
        > The question at hand is pretty easy to test manually and the information you get is much more useful. This approach can be hazardous to the health of the product you're building. For example, if you take this approach to answer the question of "what happens if I have two connections to a MySQL database, start a transaction in one of them and insert a row (but don't commit) and then issue a SELECT which would show the inserted row", then you will see consistent results across all of the experiments you run with that particular database, but you could easily end up with bugs that only show up when the transaction isolation level changes from how you tested it. Whereas if you search for or ask that question, the answers you get will likely mention that transaction isolation levels are a thing. You might also be able to get this level of knowledge by reading the manual, though there will still be things that are not included in the manual but do come up regularly in discussions on the wider internet.
        3y ago
- Tommstein 3y ago
  You can also, uh, just try it with a trivial test and see what happens.
- swatcoder 3y ago
  Well, were it possible, I'd say go back in time and study your tools so that you're not spending the journeyman period of your career ricocheting between tutorials and faqs. Failing that, read the documentation. Failing that, stand up a quick experiment. Somehow, we survived before ChatGPT and even before saturated question boards. Those strategies are still available to you and well worth learning
  - EnergyAmy 3y ago
    We also survived before the internet and indoor plumbing and fire, and yet life is so much better now.
  - dvfjsdhgfv 3y ago
    I see your point but the world changes so fast. Back in my day you just needed to learn C, understand algorithms and so on and then you could get deeper in an area or two. Today, you need to understand and be able to proficiently use so many technologies that you can feel lost. And this is what happens when, say, you loose a job you've been doing for 10-15 years. You need to re-learn the world. And a lifetime is not enough to do it the way we used to do it.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - mritchie712 3y ago
    I'd go straight to the experiment, create the tables on a local postgresdb and try to get it to work.
  - linsomniac 3y ago
    The "good old days weren't always good". I'm tired of either limiting myself to the information I have on the top of my head, the LLMs are really helping allow me to be creative and stretch out to do things that are just beyond my bread and butter, or things that I do infrequently.
    - 3y ago
- morsch 3y ago
  So ChatGPT says -- to me, a minute ago, ymmv -- it will rollback the first insert. Now what? Do you believe it? Cool. I wouldn't. I would confirm its claim, either by Googling or by trying it myself. Also, when I asked it "what if I use PostgreSQL's non-transactional triggers", which I thought I just made up, it told me it wouldn't roll back the first insert: Non-transactional triggers are executed as part of the statement that triggered them, but they don't participate in the transaction control. So now I don't know what to think.
sidibe 3y ago
Not working for me. Am I going to have to read docs or search Google like some boomer?
- rossdavidh 3y ago
  (speaking as a just-slightly-pre-Boomer) Yes. But probably not for long. However, you might want to get used to it, as it looks like it might happen not uncommonly.
- callalex 3y ago
  If you are not ok with casually saying racist or sexist things, you probably also shouldn’t say ageist things either.
  - Eumenes 3y ago
    I think its okay to make little generational jokes. Its not like they said .. "Do I have to google this like some old f*ck?" ... Certain generations are slower to pick up technology.
- timeon 3y ago
  With Google'n'co you at least know when search is wrong.
  - bun_at_work 3y ago
    Don't people often fall into the "vaccines cause autism" trap from Google?
TechRemarker 3y ago
Same for the past 30+ minutes was surprised not to see it on HN but guess it just took a little time for someone to post. Tried Bard and reminded me how far behind it is when asking programmer questions.
- verdverm 3y ago
  You might find the results from Google Cloud's Vertex AI better than the general purpose Bard. They have a number of pre-trained models for coding tasks. You can chat in the console UI or use the API directly. They also offer a number of open source models (codey & llama), so you can easily try different models https://cloud.google.com/vertex-ai https://cloud.google.com/vertex-ai https://console.cloud.google.com/vertex-ai/model-garden https://console.cloud.google.com/vertex-ai/model-garden
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- pnathan 3y ago
  I am finding Bard almost comparable. Gpt quality is declining I think. Wouldn't surprise me if bard permanently surpasses gpt in the next quarter. Particularly if openai is dialing down quality...
mg 3y ago
I'm running this comparison of free and open AI engines: https://www.gnod.com/search/ai https://www.gnod.com/search/ai Looks like they all currently work. If there are more, let me know.
rvz 3y ago
We should except OpenAI's API to go down regularly at least every week [0] just like GitHub does all the time. But have you tried contacting the CEO of OpenAI this time? [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38371339 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38371339
drexlspivey 3y ago
Has anyone managed to replicate the “search the web” functionality through the API? I’ve set up two “functions” one to get search results and one to extract the text from a search results and feed it back to the AI but I am a bit stuck. What do you use to extract the text from a webpage and how do you handle websites with anti-bot measures?
- altdataseller 3y ago
  Shouldn’t the API response be the exact response you would get if you sent the same input to ChatGPT, assuming it’a the same model ?
  - doppio19 3y ago
    No, ChatGPT is more than just a UI for the OpenAI API. Web requests are a feature built into ChatGPT using the API's support for function calls, but the API doesn't make any external web requests by itself.
  - CSMastermind 3y ago
    The API doesn't have access to the web search functionality unless something changed.
BrunoJo 3y ago
You may want to try https://lemonfox.ai/ https://lemonfox.ai/ as a OpenAI API alternative. I think relying on open-source models is a great alternative.
- Filligree 3y ago
  The solution to 'GPT-4 sometimes breaks' isn't to use something that never works...
  - nuz 3y ago
    Finetuned local models can work just as well or better than gpt-4 in many use cases
  - jjcon 3y ago
    Have you never used the open source models? They are getting really good - better than 3.5 for sure not as good as 4 except when domain trained in my opinion
timthelion 3y ago
I think we need a new type of status page or at least a public version number on llms, yesterday for me GPT4 started giving nonsense super generic answers, like it was hardly reading what I wrote, and today it is back to top notch performance. I think they were trying to make the model more efficient or something but I just saw a massive decrease in the quality of output. From my side though, there is no version number except for "4"...
- buildbot 3y ago
  This conspiracy always comes up - don't you think that they test the output of the model revisions on probably 1000s of downstream tasks at this point? Bad responses are hard to reason about, could be prompting, could be a model revision, could just be bad luck.
  - lazysheepherd 3y ago
    Or maybe they are just AB testing and aggressively optimizing the response generation? LLMs are known to be compute/energy hungry to execute. It is a developing technology, if not downright experimental. Therefore, this explanation is very likely. I cannot see the reason to call this a conspiracy.
    - willsmith72 3y ago
      AB testing on what? AB tests need to produce some results which are then compared. How would releasing different versions in production help with that? It would make more sense if that was internal and the responses were then graded. A failed canary release would be more likely, where they released this version to a small amount of people not realising it was bad
      - timthelion 3y ago
        There are the up down thumbs and automatic sentiment analysis as a test.
      - 3y ago
airstrike 3y ago
This happens so often it's made it really easy to test an app I'm developing for API outages and put it into "maintenance mode" accordingly. I don't even need to mock the outage... just wait for the weekly occurrence
extheat 3y ago
As an FYI, Bing Chat at http://bing.com/chat http://bing.com/chat continues to work even during OpenAI outages. It's also running GPT-4 -- it can be annoying when it reaches out to search, but you can usually explicitly prompt it to not do that.
- jug 3y ago
  Yes it’s indeed an option. Note that Creative mode uses GPT-4, not the default Balanced.
  - Al-Khwarizmi 3y ago
    What does Balanced use then? 3.5?
bilsbie 3y ago
I’m seeing everyone reporting “laziness” today on X. Like it’s telling people to do their own coding. What’s up with that?
- padjo 3y ago
  The AI has joined the teamsters
alexdoesstuff 3y ago
Does anyone know if Azure's OpenAI Studio is down as well? For everyone using ChatGPT APIs in production, this needs to be the most straightforward failover mechanism. Using this to plug our open-source tool https://github.com/Marvin-Labs/lbgpt https://github.com/Marvin-Labs/lbgpt which allows ChatGPT consumers to quickly load balance and failover between OpenAi and Azure models.
- nonfamous 3y ago
  Azure OpenAI is running normally https://azure.status.microsoft/en-us/status https://azure.status.microsoft/en-us/status
gardenhedge 3y ago
Why don't they disable the free version when they're hitting this type of load
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

71 points by zeptonix 3y ago

> OK I have a table in postgresql and I am adding a trigger such that when an insert happens on that table, an insert happens on another table. The second table has a constraint. What happens to the first insert if the second insert violates the constraint? How can I get help with this now? Google result 1: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/77148711/create-a-trigger-on-insert-that-creates-another-trigger-on-a-different-table-in https://stackoverflow.com/questions/77148711/create-a-trigge... Google result 2: https://dba.stackexchange.com/questions/307448/postgresql-trigger-insert-on-another-table-after-update-and-update-other-tables https://dba.stackexchange.com/questions/307448/postgresql-tr... Like 90% of my questions like this are going to ChatGPT these days. I can figure it out via the docs, but ChatGPT is SO convenient for things like this.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
netcraft 3y ago
Agreed that chatgpt is great for this kind of thing - a coworker is working on this GPT specifically for postgres https://chat.openai.com/g/g-uXYoYQEFi-sql-sage https://chat.openai.com/g/g-uXYoYQEFi-sql-sage But with it being down, my biggest advice would be to try it and see. something like dbfiddle.uk is perfect for these kinds of tests.
SoftTalker 3y ago
> What happens to the first insert if the second insert violates the constraint? Try it and see? Why do you need an AI to help with this?
- speedgoose 3y ago
  Why do you use an internet search engine when you can walk to the library?
  - rurp 3y ago
    The question at hand is pretty easy to test manually and the information you get is much more useful. You will get to see the exact behavior for yourself, can easily build on the test case as related questions come up, and you know the information you are getting is correct rather than a hallucination. Copying information from ChatGPT is the newer version of blindly copying answers from StackOverflow. It often works out ok and at times makes sense to do, but it can easily lead to software flaws and doesn't do much to build a better undersanding of the domain which is necessary to solve more difficult challenges that don't fit into a Q&A format well.
    - speedgoose 3y ago
      In my experience, I encounter more issues and waste more time when I fiddle on my own and try stuff compared to doing the same, but using chatGPT. There is a lot of knowledge that I don’t want to have expertise with. Sure, I could carefully read the PostgreSQL documentation about triggers and implement it myself, or I could get the job done in a few minutes and procrastinate on HN instead.
    - JoshuaDavid 3y ago
      > The question at hand is pretty easy to test manually and the information you get is much more useful. This approach can be hazardous to the health of the product you're building. For example, if you take this approach to answer the question of "what happens if I have two connections to a MySQL database, start a transaction in one of them and insert a row (but don't commit) and then issue a SELECT which would show the inserted row", then you will see consistent results across all of the experiments you run with that particular database, but you could easily end up with bugs that only show up when the transaction isolation level changes from how you tested it. Whereas if you search for or ask that question, the answers you get will likely mention that transaction isolation levels are a thing. You might also be able to get this level of knowledge by reading the manual, though there will still be things that are not included in the manual but do come up regularly in discussions on the wider internet.
      - 3y ago
Tommstein 3y ago
You can also, uh, just try it with a trivial test and see what happens.
swatcoder 3y ago
Well, were it possible, I'd say go back in time and study your tools so that you're not spending the journeyman period of your career ricocheting between tutorials and faqs. Failing that, read the documentation. Failing that, stand up a quick experiment. Somehow, we survived before ChatGPT and even before saturated question boards. Those strategies are still available to you and well worth learning
- EnergyAmy 3y ago
  We also survived before the internet and indoor plumbing and fire, and yet life is so much better now.
- dvfjsdhgfv 3y ago
  I see your point but the world changes so fast. Back in my day you just needed to learn C, understand algorithms and so on and then you could get deeper in an area or two. Today, you need to understand and be able to proficiently use so many technologies that you can feel lost. And this is what happens when, say, you loose a job you've been doing for 10-15 years. You need to re-learn the world. And a lifetime is not enough to do it the way we used to do it.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- mritchie712 3y ago
  I'd go straight to the experiment, create the tables on a local postgresdb and try to get it to work.
- linsomniac 3y ago
  The "good old days weren't always good". I'm tired of either limiting myself to the information I have on the top of my head, the LLMs are really helping allow me to be creative and stretch out to do things that are just beyond my bread and butter, or things that I do infrequently.
  - 3y ago
morsch 3y ago
So ChatGPT says -- to me, a minute ago, ymmv -- it will rollback the first insert. Now what? Do you believe it? Cool. I wouldn't. I would confirm its claim, either by Googling or by trying it myself. Also, when I asked it "what if I use PostgreSQL's non-transactional triggers", which I thought I just made up, it told me it wouldn't roll back the first insert: Non-transactional triggers are executed as part of the statement that triggered them, but they don't participate in the transaction control. So now I don't know what to think.

sidibe 3y ago

Not working for me. Am I going to have to read docs or search Google like some boomer?

rossdavidh 3y ago
(speaking as a just-slightly-pre-Boomer) Yes. But probably not for long. However, you might want to get used to it, as it looks like it might happen not uncommonly.
callalex 3y ago
If you are not ok with casually saying racist or sexist things, you probably also shouldn’t say ageist things either.
- Eumenes 3y ago
  I think its okay to make little generational jokes. Its not like they said .. "Do I have to google this like some old f*ck?" ... Certain generations are slower to pick up technology.
timeon 3y ago
With Google'n'co you at least know when search is wrong.
- bun_at_work 3y ago
  Don't people often fall into the "vaccines cause autism" trap from Google?

TechRemarker 3y ago

Same for the past 30+ minutes was surprised not to see it on HN but guess it just took a little time for someone to post. Tried Bard and reminded me how far behind it is when asking programmer questions.

verdverm 3y ago
You might find the results from Google Cloud's Vertex AI better than the general purpose Bard. They have a number of pre-trained models for coding tasks. You can chat in the console UI or use the API directly. They also offer a number of open source models (codey & llama), so you can easily try different models https://cloud.google.com/vertex-ai https://cloud.google.com/vertex-ai https://console.cloud.google.com/vertex-ai/model-garden https://console.cloud.google.com/vertex-ai/model-garden
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
pnathan 3y ago
I am finding Bard almost comparable. Gpt quality is declining I think. Wouldn't surprise me if bard permanently surpasses gpt in the next quarter. Particularly if openai is dialing down quality...

mg 3y ago

I'm running this comparison of free and open AI engines: https://www.gnod.com/search/ai https://www.gnod.com/search/ai Looks like they all currently work. If there are more, let me know.

rvz 3y ago

We should except OpenAI's API to go down regularly at least every week [0] just like GitHub does all the time. But have you tried contacting the CEO of OpenAI this time? [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38371339 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38371339

drexlspivey 3y ago

Has anyone managed to replicate the “search the web” functionality through the API? I’ve set up two “functions” one to get search results and one to extract the text from a search results and feed it back to the AI but I am a bit stuck. What do you use to extract the text from a webpage and how do you handle websites with anti-bot measures?

altdataseller 3y ago
Shouldn’t the API response be the exact response you would get if you sent the same input to ChatGPT, assuming it’a the same model ?
- doppio19 3y ago
  No, ChatGPT is more than just a UI for the OpenAI API. Web requests are a feature built into ChatGPT using the API's support for function calls, but the API doesn't make any external web requests by itself.
- CSMastermind 3y ago
  The API doesn't have access to the web search functionality unless something changed.

BrunoJo 3y ago

You may want to try https://lemonfox.ai/ https://lemonfox.ai/ as a OpenAI API alternative. I think relying on open-source models is a great alternative.

Filligree 3y ago
The solution to 'GPT-4 sometimes breaks' isn't to use something that never works...
- nuz 3y ago
  Finetuned local models can work just as well or better than gpt-4 in many use cases
- jjcon 3y ago
  Have you never used the open source models? They are getting really good - better than 3.5 for sure not as good as 4 except when domain trained in my opinion

timthelion 3y ago

I think we need a new type of status page or at least a public version number on llms, yesterday for me GPT4 started giving nonsense super generic answers, like it was hardly reading what I wrote, and today it is back to top notch performance. I think they were trying to make the model more efficient or something but I just saw a massive decrease in the quality of output. From my side though, there is no version number except for "4"...

buildbot 3y ago
This conspiracy always comes up - don't you think that they test the output of the model revisions on probably 1000s of downstream tasks at this point? Bad responses are hard to reason about, could be prompting, could be a model revision, could just be bad luck.
- lazysheepherd 3y ago
  Or maybe they are just AB testing and aggressively optimizing the response generation? LLMs are known to be compute/energy hungry to execute. It is a developing technology, if not downright experimental. Therefore, this explanation is very likely. I cannot see the reason to call this a conspiracy.
  - willsmith72 3y ago
    AB testing on what? AB tests need to produce some results which are then compared. How would releasing different versions in production help with that? It would make more sense if that was internal and the responses were then graded. A failed canary release would be more likely, where they released this version to a small amount of people not realising it was bad
    - timthelion 3y ago
      There are the up down thumbs and automatic sentiment analysis as a test.
    - 3y ago

airstrike 3y ago

This happens so often it's made it really easy to test an app I'm developing for API outages and put it into "maintenance mode" accordingly. I don't even need to mock the outage... just wait for the weekly occurrence

extheat 3y ago

As an FYI, Bing Chat at http://bing.com/chat http://bing.com/chat continues to work even during OpenAI outages. It's also running GPT-4 -- it can be annoying when it reaches out to search, but you can usually explicitly prompt it to not do that.

jug 3y ago
Yes it’s indeed an option. Note that Creative mode uses GPT-4, not the default Balanced.
- Al-Khwarizmi 3y ago
  What does Balanced use then? 3.5?

bilsbie 3y ago

I’m seeing everyone reporting “laziness” today on X. Like it’s telling people to do their own coding. What’s up with that?

padjo 3y ago
The AI has joined the teamsters

alexdoesstuff 3y ago

Does anyone know if Azure's OpenAI Studio is down as well? For everyone using ChatGPT APIs in production, this needs to be the most straightforward failover mechanism. Using this to plug our open-source tool https://github.com/Marvin-Labs/lbgpt https://github.com/Marvin-Labs/lbgpt which allows ChatGPT consumers to quickly load balance and failover between OpenAi and Azure models.

nonfamous 3y ago
Azure OpenAI is running normally https://azure.status.microsoft/en-us/status https://azure.status.microsoft/en-us/status

gardenhedge 3y ago

Why don't they disable the free version when they're hitting this type of load

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]