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The government has the obligation to deliver services to residents and businesses. If some government workers refuse to do the work, the government's obligation

The government has the obligation to deliver services to residents and businesses. If some government workers refuse to do the work, the government's obligation is unchanged, and they need to find another way to fulfill it

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> government has the obligation to deliver services to residents and businesses Postnord is a private company [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PostNord https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PostNord
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- Jensson 3y ago
  Private "The owners of PostNord Group are the state of Sweden (60 percent) and the state of Denmark (40 percent)." It was a merger between the two countries postal services that were created over 300 years ago, it still has no private shareholders. It is still very closely tied to government rulings and laws around postal services.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > still very closely tied to government rulings and laws around postal services Sure. But you can't sue Fannie Mae for denying you guarantees under the equal protection clause.
    - gabeaweg 3y ago
      Is there a law saying that Fannie Mae is the only company that can do X? Because that's the case with postnord: only they can handle these plates, by law.
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > Is there a law saying that Fannie Mae is the only company that can do X? Guarantee mortgages with the implicit backing of the U.S.? Yes. There are loads of other examples of NGOs being granted limited monopolies. The NFL is a famous example. The MPAA and NCMEC others.
      - mrmanner 3y ago
        That’s not exactly the case though - the court in the other Tesla case, against the government, has ordered the agency registering vehicles to ensure Tesla can pick up their plates directly from the manufacturer: https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/domstol-teslas-registreringsskyltar-ska-lamnas-ut--lsx0rk https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/domstol-teslas-registreri...
    - Jensson 3y ago
      But there are laws around post packages similar to the US common carrier laws, you can't just reject packages due to not liking the sender or recipient. Every country has such laws around important services.
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > there are laws around post packages similar to the US common carrier laws, you can't just reject packages due to not liking the sender or recipient. Every country has such laws around important services. Yes! Sweden has laws around labour disputes. Again, these are deeply precedented. Even the experience of American companies being caught pants down in their respect is precedented.
        Jensson 3y ago
        > Yes! Sweden has laws around labour disputes But these things haven't been pitted against each other in court. The state has to provide these services according to law, but workers can strike according to law. So what happens when these two things oppose each other? That is what these lawsuits are supposed to figure out. So it makes perfect sense to sue in this case. Clearing these things up is a really good thing.
        Hikikomori 3y ago
        I don't know if it ended up in court but Posten employees/Seko sympathy striked against toys r us in the 90s.
    - paulddraper 3y ago
      But if Fannie Mae is unable or unwilling to perform the governmental functions it is contracted for, the government must find a new contractor who will, yes? Unless the law specifically enshrines the privilege of one named private party above others? Any of that make sense?
- whats_a_quasar 3y ago
  From that link: > "The owners of PostNord Group are the state of Sweden (60 percent) and the state of Denmark (40 percent)" So no, it's a state-owned company. And most national postal services have some sort of equal-service guarantee in law, though I don't know about Sweden.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  I think this case is interesting in that it tests the distinction. It isnt a government agency, but it is 100% government owned and provides a public service. I could see an argument that delivery is not a de jure function of government, but it certainly seems to a de facto function of government. If a country delegates the execution of it's obligations to a private party, I would expect that it is still responsible for their fulfillment.
mrmanner 3y ago
The government has an obligation to deliver services according to its laws and agreements it has entered. The current view of the courts seems to be that there’s no law clearly defining an obligation for the state so provide postal services in this specific situation. Will be interesting to see where this ends.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> government has the obligation to deliver services to residents and businesses Postnord is a private company [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PostNord https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PostNord

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Jensson 3y ago
Private "The owners of PostNord Group are the state of Sweden (60 percent) and the state of Denmark (40 percent)." It was a merger between the two countries postal services that were created over 300 years ago, it still has no private shareholders. It is still very closely tied to government rulings and laws around postal services.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > still very closely tied to government rulings and laws around postal services Sure. But you can't sue Fannie Mae for denying you guarantees under the equal protection clause.
  - gabeaweg 3y ago
    Is there a law saying that Fannie Mae is the only company that can do X? Because that's the case with postnord: only they can handle these plates, by law.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > Is there a law saying that Fannie Mae is the only company that can do X? Guarantee mortgages with the implicit backing of the U.S.? Yes. There are loads of other examples of NGOs being granted limited monopolies. The NFL is a famous example. The MPAA and NCMEC others.
    - mrmanner 3y ago
      That’s not exactly the case though - the court in the other Tesla case, against the government, has ordered the agency registering vehicles to ensure Tesla can pick up their plates directly from the manufacturer: https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/domstol-teslas-registreringsskyltar-ska-lamnas-ut--lsx0rk https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/domstol-teslas-registreri...
  - Jensson 3y ago
    But there are laws around post packages similar to the US common carrier laws, you can't just reject packages due to not liking the sender or recipient. Every country has such laws around important services.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > there are laws around post packages similar to the US common carrier laws, you can't just reject packages due to not liking the sender or recipient. Every country has such laws around important services. Yes! Sweden has laws around labour disputes. Again, these are deeply precedented. Even the experience of American companies being caught pants down in their respect is precedented.
      - Jensson 3y ago
        > Yes! Sweden has laws around labour disputes But these things haven't been pitted against each other in court. The state has to provide these services according to law, but workers can strike according to law. So what happens when these two things oppose each other? That is what these lawsuits are supposed to figure out. So it makes perfect sense to sue in this case. Clearing these things up is a really good thing.
        Hikikomori 3y ago
        I don't know if it ended up in court but Posten employees/Seko sympathy striked against toys r us in the 90s.
  - paulddraper 3y ago
    But if Fannie Mae is unable or unwilling to perform the governmental functions it is contracted for, the government must find a new contractor who will, yes? Unless the law specifically enshrines the privilege of one named private party above others? Any of that make sense?
whats_a_quasar 3y ago
From that link: > "The owners of PostNord Group are the state of Sweden (60 percent) and the state of Denmark (40 percent)" So no, it's a state-owned company. And most national postal services have some sort of equal-service guarantee in law, though I don't know about Sweden.
s1artibartfast 3y ago
I think this case is interesting in that it tests the distinction. It isnt a government agency, but it is 100% government owned and provides a public service. I could see an argument that delivery is not a de jure function of government, but it certainly seems to a de facto function of government. If a country delegates the execution of it's obligations to a private party, I would expect that it is still responsible for their fulfillment.

mrmanner 3y ago

The government has an obligation to deliver services according to its laws and agreements it has entered. The current view of the courts seems to be that there’s no law clearly defining an obligation for the state so provide postal services in this specific situation. Will be interesting to see where this ends.