4 ms·

“Prostitution is a new phenomenon that people from earlier ages wouldn’t expect to exist today”? Regardless, the article’s case pretty clear if you would read

“Prostitution is a new phenomenon that people from earlier ages wouldn’t expect to exist today”? Regardless, the article’s case pretty clear if you would read it. Mass job losses and from all the COVID fraud lead to folks getting money however possible. Throw in years of the eduction system telling people a college degree in “whatever you want” is better than tradeschool and that service jobs are the worst thing to possibly end up in, and here we are. People with shattered compasses and mountains of debt trying to make a living in a world that will lie to your face and force you to like it.

giraffe_lady 3y ago
It's not so much that people are told that service jobs are the worst to end up in but that we have made that true. They may be better than literal penury but they are as close to it as can be sustained. No paid time off, no consistent schedule to build a life around, no healthcare, very little dignity. It's no surprise people will seek any alternative and their motivations for doing so are not based on incorrect or fabricated data. Those jobs are truly miserable.
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  The bubble here is more of a concrete dome sometimes; I wonder how many people on this forum have ever worked a service job? I have and I literally fear what I would do if I had to go back to the jobs I had while in college (which could happen; I've never felt very secure in any job).
  - taylodl 3y ago
    I've never worked a service job in my life but I know several people who have - including my own children. OMFG!!! It's inhumane how these people are treated. I've seen office equipment treated better than these flesh-and-blood human beings. The only good thing is it gave my kids a good swift kick in the rear end to go to college, not screw around, and get serious with what they were doing. Despite that upside, I wouldn't wish that on anybody!
    - explaininjs 3y ago
      Crazy levels of projection here any time a non-white-collar job is mentioned as being passible. My brother hated college more than life itself. He always looked forward to summers where he’d work service more consistently. Fast-forward, he’s dropped out and now works in food services full time, never been happier.
      - giraffe_lady 3y ago
        How's the dental care of your brother's children? When's he thinking he can retire and what will that look like? When was the last time he took a week off? It's not the work itself that is bad but the conditions of it. I loved cooking, I much prefer it to computer work. But allowances for health and family have to be carved out case-by-case depending on your relationship to your bosses. This isn't necessary and we could change it. But we haven't, and so these jobs suck for reasons that have nothing to do with the work being done.
        explaininjs 3y ago
        Great! He’s part of a union and they provide for his benefits. And he’s a good reliable worker (which in massive demand in the industry rn), so if he gives his boss enough notice he’ll allow pretty much anything wrt time off.
        taylodl 3y ago
        > He’s part of a union and they provide for his benefits Yeah, what we're talking about is not that. Union work is an entirely different beast. I'm talking about people not knowing from one day to the next what their schedule is going to be, informing their supervisor well in advance when they're available to work and still having work scheduled when they're not able to work and then being threatened to be fired if they don't show up. Complete shit show.
        explaininjs 3y ago
  - giraffe_lady 3y ago
    Yes agreed. Also when people did do these jobs it was often quite a while ago without noticing how much worse this work has been made in the last ten or fifteen years. Or they were only doing them briefly during a transition (like college) and haven't really considered the psychological impact of this being the only work you do and ever expect to do for decades straight.
    - explaininjs 3y ago
      > psychological impact of this being the only work you do and ever expect to do for decades straight This is exactly the kind of prejudice I detest. Who are you to say that providing folks with good food and pleasant hospitality they want to keep coming back to and enjoying is somehow a psychologically draining career? But putting letters on screens that move boxes around and implement TCP/IP protocols is better? In fact, in my experience the folks with the absolute most pride in their work and general positive sentiment about their role in the world have been restaurant/bar workers. It’s downright common in places like Spain/Italy/Japan, and I see it in some places in America too. But when you’ve preconditioned folks to believe they’re the scum of the earth, that’s what they’ll believe.
      - giraffe_lady 3y ago
        I'm someone who did this work for decades and am speaking from my own experience. You mentioned in another comment that your second-hand experience with this is from someone in a union. Which, sure, if I'd been able to find union cooking work maybe I'd still be happy over there. As it was I was working 60 hour weeks while my teeth were rotting out of my head and I hadn't had a sunday off to go to church in four years. Regardless of the pride I took in my work I think I'm well positioned to describe it as draining.
        explaininjs 3y ago
        See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38449769 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38449769 Plenty of software jobs might be called draining. For instance the contractors HN loves to pity. But I’m a contractor and I love it, more than my prior FAANG time even. Still, should we expect public school teachers to deride the idea of being a software engineer because some instances of it are stressful?

giraffe_lady 3y ago

It's not so much that people are told that service jobs are the worst to end up in but that we have made that true. They may be better than literal penury but they are as close to it as can be sustained. No paid time off, no consistent schedule to build a life around, no healthcare, very little dignity. It's no surprise people will seek any alternative and their motivations for doing so are not based on incorrect or fabricated data. Those jobs are truly miserable.

hotpotamus 3y ago
The bubble here is more of a concrete dome sometimes; I wonder how many people on this forum have ever worked a service job? I have and I literally fear what I would do if I had to go back to the jobs I had while in college (which could happen; I've never felt very secure in any job).
- taylodl 3y ago
  I've never worked a service job in my life but I know several people who have - including my own children. OMFG!!! It's inhumane how these people are treated. I've seen office equipment treated better than these flesh-and-blood human beings. The only good thing is it gave my kids a good swift kick in the rear end to go to college, not screw around, and get serious with what they were doing. Despite that upside, I wouldn't wish that on anybody!
  - explaininjs 3y ago
    Crazy levels of projection here any time a non-white-collar job is mentioned as being passible. My brother hated college more than life itself. He always looked forward to summers where he’d work service more consistently. Fast-forward, he’s dropped out and now works in food services full time, never been happier.
    - giraffe_lady 3y ago
      How's the dental care of your brother's children? When's he thinking he can retire and what will that look like? When was the last time he took a week off? It's not the work itself that is bad but the conditions of it. I loved cooking, I much prefer it to computer work. But allowances for health and family have to be carved out case-by-case depending on your relationship to your bosses. This isn't necessary and we could change it. But we haven't, and so these jobs suck for reasons that have nothing to do with the work being done.
      - explaininjs 3y ago
        Great! He’s part of a union and they provide for his benefits. And he’s a good reliable worker (which in massive demand in the industry rn), so if he gives his boss enough notice he’ll allow pretty much anything wrt time off.
        taylodl 3y ago
        > He’s part of a union and they provide for his benefits Yeah, what we're talking about is not that. Union work is an entirely different beast. I'm talking about people not knowing from one day to the next what their schedule is going to be, informing their supervisor well in advance when they're available to work and still having work scheduled when they're not able to work and then being threatened to be fired if they don't show up. Complete shit show.
        explaininjs 3y ago
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  Yes agreed. Also when people did do these jobs it was often quite a while ago without noticing how much worse this work has been made in the last ten or fifteen years. Or they were only doing them briefly during a transition (like college) and haven't really considered the psychological impact of this being the only work you do and ever expect to do for decades straight.
  - explaininjs 3y ago
    > psychological impact of this being the only work you do and ever expect to do for decades straight This is exactly the kind of prejudice I detest. Who are you to say that providing folks with good food and pleasant hospitality they want to keep coming back to and enjoying is somehow a psychologically draining career? But putting letters on screens that move boxes around and implement TCP/IP protocols is better? In fact, in my experience the folks with the absolute most pride in their work and general positive sentiment about their role in the world have been restaurant/bar workers. It’s downright common in places like Spain/Italy/Japan, and I see it in some places in America too. But when you’ve preconditioned folks to believe they’re the scum of the earth, that’s what they’ll believe.
    - giraffe_lady 3y ago
      I'm someone who did this work for decades and am speaking from my own experience. You mentioned in another comment that your second-hand experience with this is from someone in a union. Which, sure, if I'd been able to find union cooking work maybe I'd still be happy over there. As it was I was working 60 hour weeks while my teeth were rotting out of my head and I hadn't had a sunday off to go to church in four years. Regardless of the pride I took in my work I think I'm well positioned to describe it as draining.
      - explaininjs 3y ago
        See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38449769 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38449769 Plenty of software jobs might be called draining. For instance the contractors HN loves to pity. But I’m a contractor and I love it, more than my prior FAANG time even. Still, should we expect public school teachers to deride the idea of being a software engineer because some instances of it are stressful?