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There are at least a dozen C++ intros that go through every little detail like this and I don't get it. I have a pretty good ability to retain a lot of informat

There are at least a dozen C++ intros that go through every little detail like this and I don't get it. I have a pretty good ability to retain a lot of information presented this way, and I've been programming in various C-like languages for long enough that much of this isn't new to me, but this doesn't seem like a good way to learn the material. I'd much rather work through actual programs and iterate on them. I imagine that a lot of people who would be looking for something this basic aren't even going to retain most of this nor understand why they would need most of these things they are memorizing.

atoav 3y ago
I agree with your grievance: Many c++ tutorials are basically like: these are the internal workings of how the graphite in a pencil is structured, now go draw the rest of the owl. I am not saying that this isn't important, but learning about pointers and references is totally useless unless someone shows you why you would use them, where you would use them etc.
- thom 3y ago
  I think Kate Gregory makes similar good points about the structure of C++ learning materials here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnWhqhNdYyk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnWhqhNdYyk
deleted 3y ago
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chubot 3y ago
I think C++ and Rust are honestly special beasts. I've heard experienced programmers say that you want to actually pick up a book to learn Rust, and the same is true for C++. Like you can basically hack your way through learning Python or JS. I didn't learn Python from a book, for sure. But with C++ and Rust that's not an optimal strategy. You have to do both -- do practical projects, and actually study it a bit. There's also a huge amount of disagreement about C++, so I think it makes sense to start with a codebase you want to work on, and then ask the people who WROTE that codebase what C++ books and learning materials they like. e.g. Game C++ is kind of different than Google C++, but both are good (they get work done, and multiple people can work together in that style). There is a lot of really bad C++ out there. The gulf between good and bad C++ is bigger than good and bad Python or JS. You want to learn from experienced people who get things done, not language lawyers
- manicennui 3y ago
  I virtually always read a book to learn a new language. My point is that memorizing every language feature as a starting point is not a great way to learn, but almost every C and C++ book/tutorial/course seems to do this. There is a reason why people love K&R's C book.

atoav 3y ago

I agree with your grievance: Many c++ tutorials are basically like: these are the internal workings of how the graphite in a pencil is structured, now go draw the rest of the owl. I am not saying that this isn't important, but learning about pointers and references is totally useless unless someone shows you why you would use them, where you would use them etc.

thom 3y ago
I think Kate Gregory makes similar good points about the structure of C++ learning materials here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnWhqhNdYyk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnWhqhNdYyk

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

chubot 3y ago

I think C++ and Rust are honestly special beasts. I've heard experienced programmers say that you want to actually pick up a book to learn Rust, and the same is true for C++. Like you can basically hack your way through learning Python or JS. I didn't learn Python from a book, for sure. But with C++ and Rust that's not an optimal strategy. You have to do both -- do practical projects, and actually study it a bit. There's also a huge amount of disagreement about C++, so I think it makes sense to start with a codebase you want to work on, and then ask the people who WROTE that codebase what C++ books and learning materials they like. e.g. Game C++ is kind of different than Google C++, but both are good (they get work done, and multiple people can work together in that style). There is a lot of really bad C++ out there. The gulf between good and bad C++ is bigger than good and bad Python or JS. You want to learn from experienced people who get things done, not language lawyers

manicennui 3y ago
I virtually always read a book to learn a new language. My point is that memorizing every language feature as a starting point is not a great way to learn, but almost every C and C++ book/tutorial/course seems to do this. There is a reason why people love K&R's C book.