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Google's new geothermal energy project is up and running
- we_love_idf 3y ago[flagged]
- krasin 3y agoIf you read the article, this is not a tech from Google. They just bought a small geothermal plant for their datacenter from a startup ([1]). As long as the plant actually works (very much likely), it will be operational for many-many years. 1. https://fervoenergy.com/ https://fervoenergy.com/
- voisin 3y agoAnd Google has no history of buying things and then shutting them down when they see a different shiny object… right? The only guarantee this plant survives Google’s next manic-depressive episode is if it can manage to drive ad revenue or violate user data privacy.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- robertlagrant 3y agoI don't think this is comparable to Google Reader. Maybe more to their undersea cables[0]? [0] https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/infrastructure/learn-about-googles-subsea-cables https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/infrastructure/learn-...
- cinntaile 3y agoGoogle does not own this company. They're just a customer to them.
- jeffbee 3y ago3.5MW is a start but a fraction of 1 datacenter's load. I read that California's Long Valley has more than adequate geothermal resources to power the entire state, so I wonder if locating datacenters in Nevada or eastern California will become popular. There are already generating facilities there, but only a few hundred megawatts in total.
- krasin 3y agoThat's a good idea, assuming that these datacenters would use a close-loop water cooling, as opposed to evaporation techniques, which waste enormous amount of water. See the previous discussion about datacenters in dry areas: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37732550 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37732550
- specialist 3y ago1/2 of the energy we consume ends up as heat. 1/2 of that is for industrial use. In our glorious renewable energy future, heat from data centers will be harnessed to recharge thermal batteries, run district heat (homes, buildings, pools), supply industrial heat, etc.
- jeffbee 3y ago> 1/2 of the energy we consume ends up as heat 100% of the energy used by a datacenter becomes heat.
- specialist 3y agoRight. Poor phrasing, sorry. I'm trying to say that waste heat could be used downstream, eg for heating homes or generating steam. Since heat is the end use of 1/2 of energy, this kind of conservation is low hanging fruit. IIRC, Google, Microsoft, others have already committed to pilot projects for capturing heat from their data centers. Transforming an expense into a revenue source. Woot.
- Cthulhu_ 3y ago
- giarc 3y agoHorizontal drilling with a closed loop system sounds a lot like Eavor's system (https://www.eavor.com/ https://www.eavor.com/). Eavor was a hot company here in Alberta a while ago but I haven't heard anything since.
- jeffbee 3y agoIt's also the same tech used by Ormat https://www.ormat.com/ https://www.ormat.com/
- MaBu 3y agoThey got 91 million from EU fund to built commercial project. It should start producing electricity start of next year. 8MWat electricity and 64 MW thermal. Looks like everything is going according to plan. https://eavor-geretsried.de/en/ https://eavor-geretsried.de/en/ https://www.eavor.com/press-releases/eavors-next-generation-geothermal-project-awarded-916-million-grant-from-the-european-innovation-fund/ https://www.eavor.com/press-releases/eavors-next-generation-...
- n00bskoolbus 3y agoThey also got $90 million from the Canadian government https://betakit.com/canada-growth-fund-injection-tops-eavors-series-b-at-182-million/ https://betakit.com/canada-growth-fund-injection-tops-eavors...
- metadat 3y ago3.5MW isn't even enough to power a single room in a data center. They frequently consume 5MW+, each! But you've gotta start somewhere, I suppose.
- gibsonf1 3y agoI wonder what the cost is to generate 3.5MW vs other forms of energy production? Also, how would this scale, as Elon says, a prototype is easy, production scale is very hard.
- toomuchtodo 3y agohttps://www.lazard.com/media/2ozoovyg/lazards-lcoeplus-april-2023.pdf https://www.lazard.com/media/2ozoovyg/lazards-lcoeplus-april... [pdf, Lazard LCOE+storage 2023]
- xnx 3y agoOfficial blog post: https://blog.google/outreach-initiatives/sustainability/google-fervo-geothermal-energy-partnership/ https://blog.google/outreach-initiatives/sustainability/goog...
- auspiv 3y agoNote that Fervo Energy (the geothermal start-up that Google partnered with) is founded by an ex oil/gas drilling engineer who decided to take all the lessons learned by oil/gas of horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing over the last 20 years and apply to geothermal. Turns out all the assumptions for the economics of geothermal were based on 20+ year old data. With the advances applied from oil/gas, geothermal is squarely back in the economic region of renewables. It took them 72 days to drill their injection well to 11220 ft. 59 days to drill their production well to same depth. So from their 1st well to their 2nd, they've already improved 18%. Oil/gas drillers can do 11220 ft wells within a couple days. Sure 3.5 MW isn't a ton but this was literally a proof of concept. They can expand by orders of magnitude by drilling hundreds of these injector/producer doublets. They could probably get 2-3x more power per well after optimization. They can easily control production by altering the injection rate. I forget the exact delay but basically, if they ramp up/down injection, they see the same exact response on the production side a couple hours later. They expect to be able to combine this with solar/wind to get a firm 24 hour renewable base load. 16 page Fervo white paper with tons of data (pressure, temperatures, geologic setting, frac plans, etc) - https://eartharxiv.org/repository/object/5704/download/11142/ https://eartharxiv.org/repository/object/5704/download/11142... Note that they do monitor induced sesmicity and have green/yellow/red light system for when to stop if necessary. Again, this was for the proof of concept with the Department of Energy. Edit: with the exception of the high temps (376F max recorded), the drilling is all very standard oil/gas style that happens all the time across the US. 376F isn't unheard of in deepwater offshore but it's damn hot.
- danpalmer 3y agoThank you for this, lots to be optimistic about! Forgive my ignorance, but... > They expect to be able to combine this with solar/wind to get a firm 24 hour renewable base load. Why would they need solar/wind to get a renewable base load? I know solar/wind can't provide that base load by themselves (at least not in one region), but I expected that geothermal would basically be constant, or at least fluctuate by only small percentages throughout a day? Does solar/wind really bring anything to the table in terms of base load here, or is it just that geothermal would provide the base load and solar/wind could be used for seasonal usage on top?
- stuff4ben 3y agoAre there concerns for earthquakes similar to how "fracking" used by the oil and gas industry has caused earthquakes? From the article: >To generate geoethermal energy there, Fervo had to drill two horizontal wells through which it pumps water. Fervo pushes cold water through fractures in the rock, which heats it up so it can generate steam back at the surface. It sounds like it might be a possibility.
- auspiv 3y agoEdit: Fervo energy is using the same exact techniques used by oil/gas for the hydraulic fracturing so yes the risk exists, but they didn't run into any issues. Seismic risk is typically highest near water disposal wells, which continuously inject water at high rates (>10000 bbl/d). These geothermal wells were fractured once, and whatever is injected is produced a few hours later (no net increase of volume after the initial frac job). From the white paper (https://eartharxiv.org/repository/object/5704/download/11142/ https://eartharxiv.org/repository/object/5704/download/11142...) - "Prior to starting the operations phase of this project, a preliminary screening assessment was performed to evaluate the potential risk of induced seismicity at the project site. We followed the guidelines outlined by the US Department of Energy’s Protocol for Addressing Induced Seismicity Associated with Enhanced Geothermal Systems (Majer et al. 2012). Based on our analysis, we developed and implemented a Traffic Light System (TLS) to mitigate the risk of potential induced seismicity associated with the project. The TLS system was in effect throughout all major phases of the project from July 2020 through June 2023, including drilling, completions, stimulation, and well testing. All observed seismicity fell within the Green TLS protocol, with no significant impact or incident throughout the full duration of the project."
- BurningFrog 3y agoSomeone correct me if this is wrong, but I believe human induced quakes can only have any serious power if they release tension that is already present. Which means making a quake happen earlier than it would, not creating one in a seismically calm area.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- lispisok 3y agoThis is great to see. Enhanced geothermal is a grossly underrated technology. We're dumping billions into fusion energy research and wind and solar subsidies but it seems like we're really close to having "geothermal anywhere" we just need a little more investment.
- boringg 3y ago(1) If fusion goes our energy problems are pretty much resolved. (2) Solar and wind are so cheap right now and will continue to get cheaper that we won't need oil and gas for electricity production except for specific use-cases. Combine that with decreasing energy storage costs and better grid management - its going well. (3) Nuclear is in a renaissance and can supply base load as we ramp it back up. Unfortunately geothermal, tidal and biofuels will be reserved to niche technologies. Too late, too inefficient or too expensive.
- lispisok 3y ago1. And if I win the lottery my financial needs are taken care of but I'm not planning on that 2. You are overestimating solar, wind, and energy storage and underestimating our energy needs, doubly so with transportation moving to electricity. Renewables still arent replacing fossil fuels despite all the hype. [1]. Moving off fossil fuels is going to require getting energy from whatever we can and having a constant consistent energy source is really important. People keep mentioning how cheap wind and solar is now but the true cost wont be realized until governments quit subsidizing them and start taxing [2]. [1] https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/ https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/ [2] https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-doubles-renewable-subsidies-156-billion-last-seven-years-eia-2023-08-02/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-doubles-renewable...
- boringg 3y agoStop subsidizing them? We still heavily subsidize oil and gas and have since inception.
- beefman 3y agoThe really-hard-to-get-to nuclear power. Always good to make things sporting.
- giantg2 3y agoInteresting. I wonder if there are any fracking related risks with ground water contamination (breaking up the rocks that separate naturally occurring zones).
- readyplayernull 3y agoIf someone have told me in the future we will cooldown the Earth's core to deliver advertising, I would have said that's a wild cyberpunk idea.