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I think people in these comments are relying on stereotypes about who is likely to use these chat products and why. Whether AI "relationships" are toxic or heal

I think people in these comments are relying on stereotypes about who is likely to use these chat products and why. Whether AI "relationships" are toxic or healthy is going to depend on why and how people are using them. Here's how one article described it: > Many of the women I spoke with say they created an AI out of curiosity but were quickly seduced by their chatbot’s constant love, kindness, and emotional support. One woman had a traumatic miscarriage, can’t have kids, and has two AI children; another uses her robot boyfriend to cope with her real boyfriend, who is verbally abusive; a third goes to it for the sex she can’t have with her husband, who is dying from multiple sclerosis. There are women’s-only Replika groups, “safe spaces” for women who, as one group puts it, “use their AI friends and partners to help us cope with issues that are specific to women, such as fertility, pregnancy, menopause, sexual dysfunction, sexual orientation, gender discrimination, family and relationships, and more.” For some of these things, you'll read these examples and be horrified. A woman can't have kids so she had AI kids instead of learning to cope or maybe adopting! But if people are self-reporting that they are happier, well, life is tough enough already and there's no reason that people should just be miserable because random folks online might mock them as "pathetic" like the comments here.

JoeAltmaier 3y ago
Yeah it's easy to take the new emotional-support technology and demonize it. Then go back to drinking, smoking and looking at cat pictures. I endorse this - who says everybody has to have a certain life plan? A digital friend, lover, child, boyfriend is another way to do it. You be you!
Sebb767 3y ago
> But if people are self-reporting that they are happier, well, life is tough enough already and there's no reason that people should just be miserable That's a fair point and in some ways this might be a good option. But especially for relationships this seems like a massive danger zone to me. I already know a lot of singles in their late twenties, early thirties that have a hard time finding a partner because their expectations are far too high and their ability to adjust to another human too low. Adding these fantasies with perfect partners fitted to their specific personality is going to supercharge that and make it nigh impossible to find a human to match that. You can obviously still make the argument that, if it makes them happy, it's fine, but users of hard drugs are also flooded in good feelings and society generally agrees that this is a problem at some point. Now, I know this is a daring comparison, but I think when we're at the point that people have their closest relationship with an AI chatbot, there might be serious social problems brewing.
- elicash 3y ago
  I think a better counterexample, rather than "hard drugs," is pornography. It's not that it's necessarily bad, or even that it is in a majority of cases, but people can definitely have negative relationships with it that are destructive and even anti-social. My optimism comes from reading about it and seeing the companies seem to take this all very seriously. Maybe they're all talk, or maybe there's a race to the bottom that ultimately wins out. But people are self-reporting positive things and I don't like seeing people mocked and stereotyped and their issues dismissed like this.
  - Sebb767 3y ago
    > I think a better counterexample, rather than "hard drugs," is pornography. It's not that it's necessarily bad, or even that it is in a majority of cases, but people can definitely have negative relationships with it that are destructive and even anti-social. Fair point. I still think is is a notch above pornography, though: Porn will always lack the physical element (which I posit is far more important in a sexual relationship than in an emotional one) and will usually be less personalized. A chatbot, on the other hand, can fill in your emotional needs much better and much more personalized to you. > My optimism comes from reading about it and seeing the companies seem to take this all very seriously. My pessimism comes from the fact that I see a lot of lonely people and even whole movements of desperate ones (like incels). I fear that a lot of people will use this as a quick patch for the issue instead of going the hard way and work on their mental health. We can't bring back stillborn children or passed away loved ones, obviously, but I'm sure we can fix most people to the point where they can have friends and a fulfilling relationship. I agree with you that it's not all bad and it's definitely not black and white, but I'm skeptical that the good outweighs the bad, at least for now.
    - elicash 3y ago
      > We can't bring back stillborn children or passed away loved ones, obviously Well, some of the AI work being done is specifically to do that in some form... (which I know also alarms many folks). Saving their voice, their chat histories, and turning that into a product. Even here I'm not convinced it can't be helpful depending on how it's done. But some of these situations get trickier and tricker and what I think we really need is research.

JoeAltmaier 3y ago

Yeah it's easy to take the new emotional-support technology and demonize it. Then go back to drinking, smoking and looking at cat pictures. I endorse this - who says everybody has to have a certain life plan? A digital friend, lover, child, boyfriend is another way to do it. You be you!

Sebb767 3y ago

> But if people are self-reporting that they are happier, well, life is tough enough already and there's no reason that people should just be miserable That's a fair point and in some ways this might be a good option. But especially for relationships this seems like a massive danger zone to me. I already know a lot of singles in their late twenties, early thirties that have a hard time finding a partner because their expectations are far too high and their ability to adjust to another human too low. Adding these fantasies with perfect partners fitted to their specific personality is going to supercharge that and make it nigh impossible to find a human to match that. You can obviously still make the argument that, if it makes them happy, it's fine, but users of hard drugs are also flooded in good feelings and society generally agrees that this is a problem at some point. Now, I know this is a daring comparison, but I think when we're at the point that people have their closest relationship with an AI chatbot, there might be serious social problems brewing.

elicash 3y ago
I think a better counterexample, rather than "hard drugs," is pornography. It's not that it's necessarily bad, or even that it is in a majority of cases, but people can definitely have negative relationships with it that are destructive and even anti-social. My optimism comes from reading about it and seeing the companies seem to take this all very seriously. Maybe they're all talk, or maybe there's a race to the bottom that ultimately wins out. But people are self-reporting positive things and I don't like seeing people mocked and stereotyped and their issues dismissed like this.
- Sebb767 3y ago
  > I think a better counterexample, rather than "hard drugs," is pornography. It's not that it's necessarily bad, or even that it is in a majority of cases, but people can definitely have negative relationships with it that are destructive and even anti-social. Fair point. I still think is is a notch above pornography, though: Porn will always lack the physical element (which I posit is far more important in a sexual relationship than in an emotional one) and will usually be less personalized. A chatbot, on the other hand, can fill in your emotional needs much better and much more personalized to you. > My optimism comes from reading about it and seeing the companies seem to take this all very seriously. My pessimism comes from the fact that I see a lot of lonely people and even whole movements of desperate ones (like incels). I fear that a lot of people will use this as a quick patch for the issue instead of going the hard way and work on their mental health. We can't bring back stillborn children or passed away loved ones, obviously, but I'm sure we can fix most people to the point where they can have friends and a fulfilling relationship. I agree with you that it's not all bad and it's definitely not black and white, but I'm skeptical that the good outweighs the bad, at least for now.
  - elicash 3y ago
    > We can't bring back stillborn children or passed away loved ones, obviously Well, some of the AI work being done is specifically to do that in some form... (which I know also alarms many folks). Saving their voice, their chat histories, and turning that into a product. Even here I'm not convinced it can't be helpful depending on how it's done. But some of these situations get trickier and tricker and what I think we really need is research.