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> Go out, get a hobby, and meet real people. these are all easiest pursued from a starting point of good mental health. so those that may need it the most, ma

> Go out, get a hobby, and meet real people. these are all easiest pursued from a starting point of good mental health. so those that may need it the most, may be least likely to be… able. this is going to be a more unpopular opinion than yours (happy to help) but these flippant responses to “just be healthy” are anything but.

jprete 3y ago
The route to good mental health probably doesn't run through "have an AI girlfriend", though.
- Grimblewald 3y ago
  I supoose it depends on how its implemented. Mental healthcare is less accesible than ever while at the same time the population is being squeezed in a way where most have less energy than ever before in recent memory to deal with other peoples emotional labor. This means AI might be a useful tool for helping people feel heard and supported, which is often enough to get people motivated to make a change. However, if capitalistic interest is behind it I anticipate it will result in a product that holds your short term mental health hostage through a subscription service randsom. The problem isn't Ai, it's profit incentive in a field which is inherently perverse to profit from.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- taneq 3y ago
  I’d imagine a suitably supportive AI girlfriend would be better for your mental health than a toxic relationship with a real human.
- pixl97 3y ago
  The route to good mental health generally starts with parents with good mental health then a social circle of people with good mental health. This begs the question, what if you were not born with that privilege? Just tell them to go online and look up resources on better mental health? Yea, this is how you end up being an incel because telling people "It's not your fault, it's everyone else's fault" is a very effective trap huge parts of populations fall in (especially those with bad mental health). Oh, the route to better mental health is the US healthcare system. Your insurance is paying for that right? So the route to better mental health is connections with other people... which you don't have, and you don't have the internal tools to build. Especially without fear of rejection. But hey, this conversation isn't about you right, you have perfect mental health? In fact with that good mental health you go out and help other people that are stuck in traps? Or do you do your own list of things focusing on the next step you're taking on your hedonistic treadmill? It's always easy to point out how someone else is obviously wrong and how they shouldn't fall in that trap, but when you see hundreds of thousands to millions of people falling in that trap then something isn't as obvious as you think.
  - Sebb767 3y ago
    > Yea, this is how you end up being an incel because telling people "It's not your fault, it's everyone else's fault" is a very effective trap huge parts of populations fall in Fully agreed, but, to be honest, the following: > The route to good mental health generally starts with parents with good mental health then a social circle of people with good mental health. > So the route to better mental health is connections with other people... which you don't have, and you don't have the internal tools to build. Especially without fear of rejection. ... reads a lot like "it's not your fault, it's the circumstances/somebody elses".
    - pixl97 3y ago
      >reads a lot like "it's not your fault, it's the circumstances/somebody elses". Well, yes, that's how circumstances typically work. I know the rugged individualists are busy launching themselves to space via their own bootstraps, but average person can become trapped in the life they live pretty easily. Meanwhile societies that actually want to move into the future while minimizing the terrible outcomes will have programs to avoid it, such as social security so we don't have to watch grandma and grandpa die on the side of the road of old age. Or in this case, some people might be able to receive help that is outside of your heterodoxy.
      - Sebb767 3y ago
        > I know the rugged individualists are busy launching themselves to space via their own bootstraps, but average person can become trapped in the life they live pretty easily. True. > Meanwhile societies that actually want to move into the future while minimizing the terrible outcomes will have programs to avoid it, such as social security so we don't have to watch grandma and grandpa die on the side of the road of old age. You might be surprised to learn that I fully agree. > Or in this case, some people might be able to receive help that is outside of your heterodoxy. Which would be perfect! The question being discussed is: Is an AI chatbot really "help"? Especially when we're not talking about absolute edge cases, in which case we both agree that the answer is "yes".
  - deleted 3y ago
- catchnear4321 3y ago
  probably, but the same could be said about a lot of human behaviors expressed due to stress, anxiety, etc. the route to good mental health probably doesn’t run through most easily accessible things and activities in modern society. those aren’t profitable.
guntherhermann 3y ago
These tools aren't for helping people's mental health though, are they. They are becoming attached to fantasy beings and sad when they disappear. That is the OPPOSITE of healthy, and it's clearly having a dramatically negative effect on their lives. These aren't tools to help people get better, they are gamed to make it more appealing to the user than the real world. That is damaging to society, and if you want to use my argument (like a few of your siblings have), like I'm saying 'Just get healthy!', go wild, but that's obviously not my argument. You're coming from an angle that I've never had depression or struggled with anxiety. I actually do know how to conquer these things, and it's done by putting yourself out there into uncomfortable situations and seeing what happens. We struggle more in imagination than in reality.
- gabeaweg 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - guntherhermann 3y ago
    But it's not flippant, it's genuine, that is the answer for these people. It is really that simple (for 99% of people). Yes there will be outliers that this doesn't work for, but those are outliers. HN comments always give the shitty outlier response whenever anyone says something like I'm saying. (e.g. 'What if I'm quadraplegic and autistic', etc) It's a shitty contrarian take that I don't have time for. Edit: for a literal example someone has posted about old people sitting in care homes and how this is a great tool for them. Completely ignoring the fact that they're in a care home full of people, in a city. It's shit takes like this that make me regret posting anything, because some HN wanker will have some shitty contrary take, because they think this is an argument 'to win' or some nonsense like that. Go out, get a hobby (or many), you will meet lots of new people, and some of those people will become your friends. People just like to make excuses. I have childhood friends who do the same. Sit at home playing video games all day, no other friends, no job, no life. Waste of a life. They live in their mind, and their mind is a prison. These tools can be used for good, but used in this way (AI girlfriends), I can't see it as anything but a problem.

jprete 3y ago

The route to good mental health probably doesn't run through "have an AI girlfriend", though.

Grimblewald 3y ago
I supoose it depends on how its implemented. Mental healthcare is less accesible than ever while at the same time the population is being squeezed in a way where most have less energy than ever before in recent memory to deal with other peoples emotional labor. This means AI might be a useful tool for helping people feel heard and supported, which is often enough to get people motivated to make a change. However, if capitalistic interest is behind it I anticipate it will result in a product that holds your short term mental health hostage through a subscription service randsom. The problem isn't Ai, it's profit incentive in a field which is inherently perverse to profit from.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
taneq 3y ago
I’d imagine a suitably supportive AI girlfriend would be better for your mental health than a toxic relationship with a real human.
pixl97 3y ago
The route to good mental health generally starts with parents with good mental health then a social circle of people with good mental health. This begs the question, what if you were not born with that privilege? Just tell them to go online and look up resources on better mental health? Yea, this is how you end up being an incel because telling people "It's not your fault, it's everyone else's fault" is a very effective trap huge parts of populations fall in (especially those with bad mental health). Oh, the route to better mental health is the US healthcare system. Your insurance is paying for that right? So the route to better mental health is connections with other people... which you don't have, and you don't have the internal tools to build. Especially without fear of rejection. But hey, this conversation isn't about you right, you have perfect mental health? In fact with that good mental health you go out and help other people that are stuck in traps? Or do you do your own list of things focusing on the next step you're taking on your hedonistic treadmill? It's always easy to point out how someone else is obviously wrong and how they shouldn't fall in that trap, but when you see hundreds of thousands to millions of people falling in that trap then something isn't as obvious as you think.
- Sebb767 3y ago
  > Yea, this is how you end up being an incel because telling people "It's not your fault, it's everyone else's fault" is a very effective trap huge parts of populations fall in Fully agreed, but, to be honest, the following: > The route to good mental health generally starts with parents with good mental health then a social circle of people with good mental health. > So the route to better mental health is connections with other people... which you don't have, and you don't have the internal tools to build. Especially without fear of rejection. ... reads a lot like "it's not your fault, it's the circumstances/somebody elses".
  - pixl97 3y ago
    >reads a lot like "it's not your fault, it's the circumstances/somebody elses". Well, yes, that's how circumstances typically work. I know the rugged individualists are busy launching themselves to space via their own bootstraps, but average person can become trapped in the life they live pretty easily. Meanwhile societies that actually want to move into the future while minimizing the terrible outcomes will have programs to avoid it, such as social security so we don't have to watch grandma and grandpa die on the side of the road of old age. Or in this case, some people might be able to receive help that is outside of your heterodoxy.
    - Sebb767 3y ago
      > I know the rugged individualists are busy launching themselves to space via their own bootstraps, but average person can become trapped in the life they live pretty easily. True. > Meanwhile societies that actually want to move into the future while minimizing the terrible outcomes will have programs to avoid it, such as social security so we don't have to watch grandma and grandpa die on the side of the road of old age. You might be surprised to learn that I fully agree. > Or in this case, some people might be able to receive help that is outside of your heterodoxy. Which would be perfect! The question being discussed is: Is an AI chatbot really "help"? Especially when we're not talking about absolute edge cases, in which case we both agree that the answer is "yes".
- deleted 3y ago
catchnear4321 3y ago
probably, but the same could be said about a lot of human behaviors expressed due to stress, anxiety, etc. the route to good mental health probably doesn’t run through most easily accessible things and activities in modern society. those aren’t profitable.

guntherhermann 3y ago

These tools aren't for helping people's mental health though, are they. They are becoming attached to fantasy beings and sad when they disappear. That is the OPPOSITE of healthy, and it's clearly having a dramatically negative effect on their lives. These aren't tools to help people get better, they are gamed to make it more appealing to the user than the real world. That is damaging to society, and if you want to use my argument (like a few of your siblings have), like I'm saying 'Just get healthy!', go wild, but that's obviously not my argument. You're coming from an angle that I've never had depression or struggled with anxiety. I actually do know how to conquer these things, and it's done by putting yourself out there into uncomfortable situations and seeing what happens. We struggle more in imagination than in reality.

gabeaweg 3y ago
[flagged]
- guntherhermann 3y ago
  But it's not flippant, it's genuine, that is the answer for these people. It is really that simple (for 99% of people). Yes there will be outliers that this doesn't work for, but those are outliers. HN comments always give the shitty outlier response whenever anyone says something like I'm saying. (e.g. 'What if I'm quadraplegic and autistic', etc) It's a shitty contrarian take that I don't have time for. Edit: for a literal example someone has posted about old people sitting in care homes and how this is a great tool for them. Completely ignoring the fact that they're in a care home full of people, in a city. It's shit takes like this that make me regret posting anything, because some HN wanker will have some shitty contrary take, because they think this is an argument 'to win' or some nonsense like that. Go out, get a hobby (or many), you will meet lots of new people, and some of those people will become your friends. People just like to make excuses. I have childhood friends who do the same. Sit at home playing video games all day, no other friends, no job, no life. Waste of a life. They live in their mind, and their mind is a prison. These tools can be used for good, but used in this way (AI girlfriends), I can't see it as anything but a problem.