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> it's a mark of someone who's so committed to one viewpoint that they cannot conceive of another viewpoint even existing, let alone being valid. I think that

> it's a mark of someone who's so committed to one viewpoint that they cannot conceive of another viewpoint even existing, let alone being valid. I think that really has become much more common. Psychopathic reasoning: "no thoughts other than mine can be correct." Which is doubly fun when the "thoughts" often strongly resemble the $CurrentThing propaganda of the moment.

AnimalMuppet 3y ago
"Psychopathic reasoning". I like the term. Is it yours, or is it a recognized term in the psych community? But it seems to me that most of the time it has the other cause I mentioned - the absolute refusal to admit the existence of the opposing viewpoint, not because the author can't understand it, but because they refuse to admit it exists for propaganda reasons. By refusing to acknowledge that it exists, they hope everyone else will somehow not see it as existing either. But it's a really lame, ineffectual approach, because almost everyone who reads the comment read the parent comment too, and they can see the parent's point for themselves. When the parent says something perfectly comprehensible, and the reply is "what's your point", it just makes the replier look like either they can't read or they're a shill.
- h2odragon 3y ago
  Agreed. "I can't see your point" as rhetoric technique is lame. i dunno what the "psych community" might be saying; so I'll claim local invention of "psychopathic reasoning" even if others are using it. I'll even define it further, to differentiate from "rhetorical feigned ignorance"... People suffering from such often find it offensive when other ideas are presented to them, they're rendered insecure by the notion their existing knowledge base isn't perfect and lash out in pre-emptive defense. Pointless example: I recently mentioned to someone that you can flush a toilet by pouring water into the bowl. They've never heard of this, don't want to consider it, and so they begin insisting that everything else I've said in the conversation must be false, too. Put these things down under "Idjit found on Internet" and go on about your day. Stressing over it isn't productive imo.
  - jstarfish 3y ago
    > you can flush a toilet by pouring water into the bowl. They've never heard of this, don't want to consider it, and so they begin insisting that everything else I've said in the conversation must be false, too. You call it "psychopathic reasoning," but everybody has seen this before as "lawyer logic." This is the very thought process attorneys exploit to convince jurors that a witness is not credible-- they try to rattle you into stating/admitting some inconsistency, which discredit your entire testimony.
    - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
      "Lawyer logic" is a perfect term for it, for at least two reasons. No matter how valid the testimony or reasoning, the opposing lawyer is never going to say "good point" or "I'm going to have to think about that". No, the response will always be denial of the validity of what you said. And they will always respond with an argument. Also, the lawyer isn't talking to you. They're talking to the jury; you're just an unwilling participant in their attempt to persuade someone else.
      - jstarfish 3y ago
        Those are some interesting extensions I hadn't thought about. They really can't afford to say things like "good point" and give you credibility when their goal is to discredit you. There's a second layer to this in that society are an arena of showmanship and dominance. Confusion, emotion and submission signal weakness and uncertainty. So the toilet thing...in my experience, they wouldn't be interested in seeing it for themselves even if both of you were sharing a stall with a 5-gallon jug of water. Calling you an idiot and walking away denies you the opportunity to prove yourself better at using a toilet.
        h2odragon 3y ago
        Rings bells with the concept of "face" in social hierarchies.

AnimalMuppet 3y ago

"Psychopathic reasoning". I like the term. Is it yours, or is it a recognized term in the psych community? But it seems to me that most of the time it has the other cause I mentioned - the absolute refusal to admit the existence of the opposing viewpoint, not because the author can't understand it, but because they refuse to admit it exists for propaganda reasons. By refusing to acknowledge that it exists, they hope everyone else will somehow not see it as existing either. But it's a really lame, ineffectual approach, because almost everyone who reads the comment read the parent comment too, and they can see the parent's point for themselves. When the parent says something perfectly comprehensible, and the reply is "what's your point", it just makes the replier look like either they can't read or they're a shill.

h2odragon 3y ago
Agreed. "I can't see your point" as rhetoric technique is lame. i dunno what the "psych community" might be saying; so I'll claim local invention of "psychopathic reasoning" even if others are using it. I'll even define it further, to differentiate from "rhetorical feigned ignorance"... People suffering from such often find it offensive when other ideas are presented to them, they're rendered insecure by the notion their existing knowledge base isn't perfect and lash out in pre-emptive defense. Pointless example: I recently mentioned to someone that you can flush a toilet by pouring water into the bowl. They've never heard of this, don't want to consider it, and so they begin insisting that everything else I've said in the conversation must be false, too. Put these things down under "Idjit found on Internet" and go on about your day. Stressing over it isn't productive imo.
- jstarfish 3y ago
  > you can flush a toilet by pouring water into the bowl. They've never heard of this, don't want to consider it, and so they begin insisting that everything else I've said in the conversation must be false, too. You call it "psychopathic reasoning," but everybody has seen this before as "lawyer logic." This is the very thought process attorneys exploit to convince jurors that a witness is not credible-- they try to rattle you into stating/admitting some inconsistency, which discredit your entire testimony.
  - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
    "Lawyer logic" is a perfect term for it, for at least two reasons. No matter how valid the testimony or reasoning, the opposing lawyer is never going to say "good point" or "I'm going to have to think about that". No, the response will always be denial of the validity of what you said. And they will always respond with an argument. Also, the lawyer isn't talking to you. They're talking to the jury; you're just an unwilling participant in their attempt to persuade someone else.
    - jstarfish 3y ago
      Those are some interesting extensions I hadn't thought about. They really can't afford to say things like "good point" and give you credibility when their goal is to discredit you. There's a second layer to this in that society are an arena of showmanship and dominance. Confusion, emotion and submission signal weakness and uncertainty. So the toilet thing...in my experience, they wouldn't be interested in seeing it for themselves even if both of you were sharing a stall with a 5-gallon jug of water. Calling you an idiot and walking away denies you the opportunity to prove yourself better at using a toilet.
      - h2odragon 3y ago
        Rings bells with the concept of "face" in social hierarchies.