3 ms·

how bad of a housing crisis is in the netherlands? Wherever I look in europe there is a housing crisis for a reason or another.

dash2 3y ago
Very bad. In Amsterdam demand is crazy. People are being scammed on Facebook groups desperately hunting for a place to stay. Interestingly, a lot of adverts for flat sharers say "no internationals" - make of that what you will. I was there this summer and was offered a 1 room bedsit for 3000 Eur/month.
nottorp 3y ago
The one dutch guy I know that bought a house bought it in ... Belgium. Rents are horrendous. House prices the same. The problem is kicking out those dirty foreigners who sweep your streets and raise rent prices won't lower rents. At best they will plateau for a little while.
- mettamage 3y ago
  Yea this seems to happen more and more. The east and south of NL are more doable IMO. But I rather work remote and live somewhere else. I’m not a fan of how NL is developing.
- fzeroracer 3y ago
  They aren't even kicking out all of the foreigners. He specifically wants to kick out all 'non-western' foreigners which is already a fraction of a fraction of the people who immigrate to the Netherlands. It's just red meat to racists who want to divert the problem away from things that are harder to solve to something that's easier and gets you voted in. I imagine things will go down the same way as it did in the UK.
  - mycologos 3y ago
    > He specifically wants to kick out all 'non-western' foreigners which is already a fraction of a fraction of the people who immigrate to the Netherlands Here is a page the Netherlands government with more specific numbers [1]. In 2022 there were roughly 250k immigrants from the former Soviet Union, Ukraine, or Poland, and the next three biggest sources were Syria, Turkey, and India, combing to maybe 50k combined. [1] https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/dossier/asylum-migration-and-integration/how-many-people-immigrate-to-the-netherlands-# https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/dossier/asylum-migration-and-integr...
    - nottorp 3y ago
      Why is Poland (EU member) lumped in with Ukraine and the former USSR who need permits?
jsiepkes 3y ago
Pretty bad. It's a combination of legislation issues with nitrogen [1] and having shot the construction workforce in the foot in the previous financial crisis (large out flow of workers). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_crisis_in_the_Netherlands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_crisis_in_the_Netherl...
FooBarWidget 3y ago
Very bad. Houses have doubled in price in just a few years. Many first-time home buyers cannot afford a house at all, and some say they never will as things look right now. The government introduced various policies to remedy this, but all has failed. A few years ago they made it easier to fund young people, e.g. by allowing parents to gift 100k EUR to their children in a tax-free manner as long as it's used for buying a house. This resulted in higher housing prices because more people can afford higher prices, and it also disproportionally benefits people who have rich parents. Now they've backpedalled on that, and the focus is now on disincentivizing investors. They raised ownership transfer taxes for people who buy a house for the purpose of renting it out. They also raised rent taxes. This works a bit better, but not enough. The core problem is just not enough housing. Also, renting out has become less profitable, so some landlords are selling those houses. This has raised concerns that we'll have too few rental housing. It's not even just a matter of not building quickly enough. The electricity grid is full (not enough capacity), so there are more and more places where new houses can't even be attached to the grid.
- meeuwer 3y ago
  My impression is that the government tried to 'solve' the problem with one main constraint in mind: to never allow the prices go down in any meaningful way. Hence the ham-fisted attempts to instead tweak taxes and ease credit conditions.
  - FooBarWidget 3y ago
    I guess that's the implicit constraint that none likes to talk about or admit. It doesn't help that no matter what you do, some population will be screwed over. I have seen that people who used to worry about not being able to afford a house, and who have now somehow managed to buy one, now start worrying about their house value going down. This cannot be solved with just one trick or just in a few years. You need strong, resolute, long-term actions. But that doesn't fit in an election cycle.
    - meeuwer 3y ago
maeil 3y ago
The worst in Europe, and since much longer than any other country in Europe. It's common for Dutch universities to only accept international students on the condition that they (i.e. the student) manage to find housing themselves, because there have been many cases where they enrolled but just couldn't get housing anywhere. You don't see that in other countries. And it's been this bad for more than a decade.
- cjrp 3y ago
  Can universities not build their own dorms / halls of residence?
CalRobert 3y ago
Pretty bad. We had to accept an 18 month (instead of 12 month) contract and overbid by 200 euro a month for a 4 bed house in Hilversum. Also pre-paid a year, but I think that was more to do with me being self employed. Though it still felt downright easy compared to Ireland, where we came from.

dash2 3y ago

Very bad. In Amsterdam demand is crazy. People are being scammed on Facebook groups desperately hunting for a place to stay. Interestingly, a lot of adverts for flat sharers say "no internationals" - make of that what you will. I was there this summer and was offered a 1 room bedsit for 3000 Eur/month.

nottorp 3y ago

The one dutch guy I know that bought a house bought it in ... Belgium. Rents are horrendous. House prices the same. The problem is kicking out those dirty foreigners who sweep your streets and raise rent prices won't lower rents. At best they will plateau for a little while.

mettamage 3y ago
Yea this seems to happen more and more. The east and south of NL are more doable IMO. But I rather work remote and live somewhere else. I’m not a fan of how NL is developing.
fzeroracer 3y ago
They aren't even kicking out all of the foreigners. He specifically wants to kick out all 'non-western' foreigners which is already a fraction of a fraction of the people who immigrate to the Netherlands. It's just red meat to racists who want to divert the problem away from things that are harder to solve to something that's easier and gets you voted in. I imagine things will go down the same way as it did in the UK.
- mycologos 3y ago
  > He specifically wants to kick out all 'non-western' foreigners which is already a fraction of a fraction of the people who immigrate to the Netherlands Here is a page the Netherlands government with more specific numbers [1]. In 2022 there were roughly 250k immigrants from the former Soviet Union, Ukraine, or Poland, and the next three biggest sources were Syria, Turkey, and India, combing to maybe 50k combined. [1] https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/dossier/asylum-migration-and-integration/how-many-people-immigrate-to-the-netherlands-# https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/dossier/asylum-migration-and-integr...
  - nottorp 3y ago
    Why is Poland (EU member) lumped in with Ukraine and the former USSR who need permits?

jsiepkes 3y ago

Pretty bad. It's a combination of legislation issues with nitrogen [1] and having shot the construction workforce in the foot in the previous financial crisis (large out flow of workers). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_crisis_in_the_Netherlands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_crisis_in_the_Netherl...

FooBarWidget 3y ago

Very bad. Houses have doubled in price in just a few years. Many first-time home buyers cannot afford a house at all, and some say they never will as things look right now. The government introduced various policies to remedy this, but all has failed. A few years ago they made it easier to fund young people, e.g. by allowing parents to gift 100k EUR to their children in a tax-free manner as long as it's used for buying a house. This resulted in higher housing prices because more people can afford higher prices, and it also disproportionally benefits people who have rich parents. Now they've backpedalled on that, and the focus is now on disincentivizing investors. They raised ownership transfer taxes for people who buy a house for the purpose of renting it out. They also raised rent taxes. This works a bit better, but not enough. The core problem is just not enough housing. Also, renting out has become less profitable, so some landlords are selling those houses. This has raised concerns that we'll have too few rental housing. It's not even just a matter of not building quickly enough. The electricity grid is full (not enough capacity), so there are more and more places where new houses can't even be attached to the grid.

meeuwer 3y ago
My impression is that the government tried to 'solve' the problem with one main constraint in mind: to never allow the prices go down in any meaningful way. Hence the ham-fisted attempts to instead tweak taxes and ease credit conditions.
- FooBarWidget 3y ago
  I guess that's the implicit constraint that none likes to talk about or admit. It doesn't help that no matter what you do, some population will be screwed over. I have seen that people who used to worry about not being able to afford a house, and who have now somehow managed to buy one, now start worrying about their house value going down. This cannot be solved with just one trick or just in a few years. You need strong, resolute, long-term actions. But that doesn't fit in an election cycle.
  - meeuwer 3y ago

maeil 3y ago

The worst in Europe, and since much longer than any other country in Europe. It's common for Dutch universities to only accept international students on the condition that they (i.e. the student) manage to find housing themselves, because there have been many cases where they enrolled but just couldn't get housing anywhere. You don't see that in other countries. And it's been this bad for more than a decade.

cjrp 3y ago
Can universities not build their own dorms / halls of residence?

CalRobert 3y ago

Pretty bad. We had to accept an 18 month (instead of 12 month) contract and overbid by 200 euro a month for a 4 bed house in Hilversum. Also pre-paid a year, but I think that was more to do with me being self employed. Though it still felt downright easy compared to Ireland, where we came from.