5 ms·

Are you implying that war is necessary?

by 4ggr0 3y ago

mc32 3y ago
Unless you have superpowers to sway people like Putin, Xi, the CIA, Ayatollah, etc., yes, else those with aspirations will trample the pacifists.
- 4ggr0 3y ago
  I disagree. You take the attackers POV (I'd say every example you've listed is viewed negatively by the vast majority of global citizens). So in the eye of an attacker, war is necessary. To me that's not enough to prove that wars in general, as a concept, are necessary for societies to move forward. They're more of a shortcut for dictators or institutions to get things they otherwise couldn't get, or at least not as fast/efficient as they'd like.
  - mc32 3y ago
    In theory you’re right. In reality we have people who seek power or in some popular cases a popular mandate to cause change or negate change through war (many civil wars, for example). This isn’t unique to people. Lots of organisms and even systems operate in similar manner.
    - 4ggr0 3y ago
      Yeah you're right, there will always people who start wars, or would like to start them. But if the question is, "Is war necessary?", then my answer is no. Maslow's hierarchy of needs does not contain war as an item, our earth moves on fine if no war occurs, etc.
Communitivity 3y ago
Some kind of external 'work' is necessary. War is the easiest form of such work, easiest meaning requiring the least momentum to get a society behind it. I would love to see us go to war on climate change, but that's not likely as long as we have charismatic politicians fighting to build a base by stirring hateful emotions. Whether that hate is against abortions, Palestinians, african-americans, muslims, or others. As a society I think we have become more apathetic, more sad, and as result more interested in things that distract us from how bad it is. As a result people like Musk gain a cult following, and much attention. We want to do amazing things against climate change, we want to colonize the rest of the solar system..but NASA's budget this year was $30.9B, next year it's $25B, and over the last two years Musk has lost around $180B (Over 7x the NASA budget for next year). Our problem is not the technology. It usually isn't. It's our prioritization and attention to avoid uncomfortable truths.
- whatwhaaaaat 3y ago
  Absolutely amazing. Hey kids we’re not killing enough innocent civilians and as a result people are beginning to follow “dreadful” people like elon musk. Do wars produce innovation? Sure. Is any of that innovation worth a single life? Bet ya wouldn’t think so if it was your loved one.
  - mc32 3y ago
    First civilians aren’t always innocent, often they are active participants, out of necessity to survive, in war. Two, appeals to emotions don’t change the calculus of war on the level of a society. We are both individuals and a society. We have roles as both. People will go to war putting their own selves in harms way to protect ideals, family, whatever. Look at Ukraine. They could simply submit. Should they stop fighting? Rationally they should.
    - whatwhaaaaat 3y ago
      Is this ai generated?
  - tticvs 3y ago
    "Hey kids, get ready to die because our society decided war is bad m'kay and now we don't have the ability to defend ourselves."
    - whatwhaaaaat 3y ago
      Not even close to the same thing. I’m fully prepared to defend myself in my own home. Multiple measures in place to insure specific boundaries are not crossed and if they are multiple methods to commit violence in defense of my family. Not sure how pillaging my neighbor for their underground orange juice would aid in that. In fact I would argue unjustified war makes the citizens of the country waging the war even more vulnerable and not less. You are not understanding the thread at all but not a huge shock at orange site. User 1: we need war to facilitate “external work” and innovation. User 2: innovation through war is true but is it worth the cost of innocent lives (ignoring the lmfao Elon comment) Work on comprehending the conversation before adding drivel.
AlgorithmicTime 3y ago
[dead]
euroderf 3y ago
(obligatory mention of "Report from Iron Mountain")
slibhb 3y ago
War may not always be necessary in the future but it was in the past and continues to be.

Are you implying that war is necessary?

by 4ggr0 3y ago

Are you implying that war is necessary?

mc32 3y ago

Unless you have superpowers to sway people like Putin, Xi, the CIA, Ayatollah, etc., yes, else those with aspirations will trample the pacifists.

4ggr0 3y ago
I disagree. You take the attackers POV (I'd say every example you've listed is viewed negatively by the vast majority of global citizens). So in the eye of an attacker, war is necessary. To me that's not enough to prove that wars in general, as a concept, are necessary for societies to move forward. They're more of a shortcut for dictators or institutions to get things they otherwise couldn't get, or at least not as fast/efficient as they'd like.
- mc32 3y ago
  In theory you’re right. In reality we have people who seek power or in some popular cases a popular mandate to cause change or negate change through war (many civil wars, for example). This isn’t unique to people. Lots of organisms and even systems operate in similar manner.
  - 4ggr0 3y ago
    Yeah you're right, there will always people who start wars, or would like to start them. But if the question is, "Is war necessary?", then my answer is no. Maslow's hierarchy of needs does not contain war as an item, our earth moves on fine if no war occurs, etc.

Communitivity 3y ago

Some kind of external 'work' is necessary. War is the easiest form of such work, easiest meaning requiring the least momentum to get a society behind it. I would love to see us go to war on climate change, but that's not likely as long as we have charismatic politicians fighting to build a base by stirring hateful emotions. Whether that hate is against abortions, Palestinians, african-americans, muslims, or others. As a society I think we have become more apathetic, more sad, and as result more interested in things that distract us from how bad it is. As a result people like Musk gain a cult following, and much attention. We want to do amazing things against climate change, we want to colonize the rest of the solar system..but NASA's budget this year was $30.9B, next year it's $25B, and over the last two years Musk has lost around $180B (Over 7x the NASA budget for next year). Our problem is not the technology. It usually isn't. It's our prioritization and attention to avoid uncomfortable truths.

whatwhaaaaat 3y ago
Absolutely amazing. Hey kids we’re not killing enough innocent civilians and as a result people are beginning to follow “dreadful” people like elon musk. Do wars produce innovation? Sure. Is any of that innovation worth a single life? Bet ya wouldn’t think so if it was your loved one.
- mc32 3y ago
  First civilians aren’t always innocent, often they are active participants, out of necessity to survive, in war. Two, appeals to emotions don’t change the calculus of war on the level of a society. We are both individuals and a society. We have roles as both. People will go to war putting their own selves in harms way to protect ideals, family, whatever. Look at Ukraine. They could simply submit. Should they stop fighting? Rationally they should.
  - whatwhaaaaat 3y ago
    Is this ai generated?
- tticvs 3y ago
  "Hey kids, get ready to die because our society decided war is bad m'kay and now we don't have the ability to defend ourselves."
  - whatwhaaaaat 3y ago
    Not even close to the same thing. I’m fully prepared to defend myself in my own home. Multiple measures in place to insure specific boundaries are not crossed and if they are multiple methods to commit violence in defense of my family. Not sure how pillaging my neighbor for their underground orange juice would aid in that. In fact I would argue unjustified war makes the citizens of the country waging the war even more vulnerable and not less. You are not understanding the thread at all but not a huge shock at orange site. User 1: we need war to facilitate “external work” and innovation. User 2: innovation through war is true but is it worth the cost of innocent lives (ignoring the lmfao Elon comment) Work on comprehending the conversation before adding drivel.

AlgorithmicTime 3y ago

[dead]

euroderf 3y ago

(obligatory mention of "Report from Iron Mountain")

slibhb 3y ago

War may not always be necessary in the future but it was in the past and continues to be.