5 ms·

Wah, there is no Incel content on YouTube? What about Pearl Davis, or the flood of shorts extracted from this podcast I just cant remember right now? Personal

by lynx23 3y ago

Wah, there is no Incel content on YouTube? What about Pearl Davis, or the flood of shorts extracted from this podcast I just cant remember right now? Personally, I much prefer a uncensored platform over arbitrary censorship by big tech. Without censorship, I can at least decide for myself if I want to watch it. In fact, I find it quite concerning that people like you seem to actively advocate for voluntary censorship.

Klonoar 3y ago
They're not "advocating for voluntary censorship", they're simply pointing out that the Peertube (and the Fediverse in general) needs to avoid being the dredges of the internet.
- autoexec 3y ago
  > they're simply pointing out that the Peertube (and the Fediverse in general) needs to avoid being the dredges of the internet. I don't think that's quite right. It just needs to make sure there's plenty available in addition to the dredges of the internet. Sometimes the dredges are useful to be able to sift through, but that can't be the only thing on offer and ideally users would be able to filter that stuff out when it isn't wanted.
  - Klonoar 3y ago
    I would agree with this take in general, yes. We are more or less saying the same thing though I appreciate the nuance injection. :)
- _heimdall 3y ago
  I've never understood this concern with online platforms. It really shouldn't matter what content people publish if discover ability is user-driven. A Twitter alternative could be full of neo-nazis, butbif my feed is only populated with people I follow them I would never know or care.
  - Klonoar 3y ago
    Sure, but you may never have found yourself on Twitter to begin with if it was full of neo Nazis. It’s like showing up to an important meeting in the wrong attire - how you present matters. The issue isn’t hiding it away - be it by user or other - it’s that it hampers growth in general when you’re all of a sudden the platform of the deranged. It’s fair to question whether it’s seeing actual use outside of those communities. (It might be telling that we’ve spent this many comments discussing it rather than pointing out e.g GNOME/Blender/etc use it - it’s not like it’s all bad)
  - acdha 3y ago
    The problem is getting to critical mass: every service has to start somewhere but if I join and only see uninteresting stuff, I probably won’t stick around long enough for you to follow me, etc. Niche services have that bootstrapping problem where they need early users but also don’t grow if their primary adopters are people who were banned elsewhere (e.g. Gab) or are very tightly ideological (Truth Social has a whole political movement pushing it but is still failing to catch on because even most Republicans don’t want shouting 100% of the time).
    - _heimdall 3y ago
      Discovery is a challenge for sure. I just wonder how far a service could get with an entirely user-driven discovery, follows, search, etc. Platforms get into the business of censorship when they attempt to currate content (handpicked or algorithmic). Engagement is obviously much lower if you aren't running an algorithm designed to hook everyone on doom scrolling, but plenty of people still happily use an RSS reader and just go away when their list of new posts is empty.
      - acdha 3y ago
        But where did those people go away to? My memory is that we moved from web rings and blog rolls to social media sites which increasingly made certain that you’d never lack for new content. Even if you’re not doomscrolling, this feels like humanity’s equivalent to moths chasing the brightest light around.
- vintermann 3y ago
  By censoring?
  - Klonoar 3y ago
    You are the second person to imply that OP was saying we need censoring, when the comment could be read very differently. We can do better than jumping to that conclusion. ;P
- lynx23 3y ago
  And how would PeerTube avoid that, without actively censoring particular content? Ask nicely? Pray? Hope?
  - anticensor 3y ago
    There are multiple PeerTube instances. You can pick or start a censorship free one.
- immibis 3y ago
  That's impossible. When you let people host their own content some Nazis will host Nazi content, and there's nothing you can do about it because you are not the one hosting it. I guess we should ban HTTP so there can't be Nazi websites.
- rakoo 3y ago
  Peertube is a software, not a service. If you find hateful content, it's not because of peertube, it's because whoever is hosting it (and how you got there)
  - mnd999 3y ago
    I’m not gonna argue with that. But I’m not going to use the software unless it hosts something I’m interested in.

by lynx23 3y ago

Klonoar 3y ago

They're not "advocating for voluntary censorship", they're simply pointing out that the Peertube (and the Fediverse in general) needs to avoid being the dredges of the internet.

autoexec 3y ago
> they're simply pointing out that the Peertube (and the Fediverse in general) needs to avoid being the dredges of the internet. I don't think that's quite right. It just needs to make sure there's plenty available in addition to the dredges of the internet. Sometimes the dredges are useful to be able to sift through, but that can't be the only thing on offer and ideally users would be able to filter that stuff out when it isn't wanted.
- Klonoar 3y ago
  I would agree with this take in general, yes. We are more or less saying the same thing though I appreciate the nuance injection. :)
_heimdall 3y ago
I've never understood this concern with online platforms. It really shouldn't matter what content people publish if discover ability is user-driven. A Twitter alternative could be full of neo-nazis, butbif my feed is only populated with people I follow them I would never know or care.
- Klonoar 3y ago
  Sure, but you may never have found yourself on Twitter to begin with if it was full of neo Nazis. It’s like showing up to an important meeting in the wrong attire - how you present matters. The issue isn’t hiding it away - be it by user or other - it’s that it hampers growth in general when you’re all of a sudden the platform of the deranged. It’s fair to question whether it’s seeing actual use outside of those communities. (It might be telling that we’ve spent this many comments discussing it rather than pointing out e.g GNOME/Blender/etc use it - it’s not like it’s all bad)
- acdha 3y ago
  The problem is getting to critical mass: every service has to start somewhere but if I join and only see uninteresting stuff, I probably won’t stick around long enough for you to follow me, etc. Niche services have that bootstrapping problem where they need early users but also don’t grow if their primary adopters are people who were banned elsewhere (e.g. Gab) or are very tightly ideological (Truth Social has a whole political movement pushing it but is still failing to catch on because even most Republicans don’t want shouting 100% of the time).
  - _heimdall 3y ago
    Discovery is a challenge for sure. I just wonder how far a service could get with an entirely user-driven discovery, follows, search, etc. Platforms get into the business of censorship when they attempt to currate content (handpicked or algorithmic). Engagement is obviously much lower if you aren't running an algorithm designed to hook everyone on doom scrolling, but plenty of people still happily use an RSS reader and just go away when their list of new posts is empty.
    - acdha 3y ago
      But where did those people go away to? My memory is that we moved from web rings and blog rolls to social media sites which increasingly made certain that you’d never lack for new content. Even if you’re not doomscrolling, this feels like humanity’s equivalent to moths chasing the brightest light around.
vintermann 3y ago
By censoring?
- Klonoar 3y ago
  You are the second person to imply that OP was saying we need censoring, when the comment could be read very differently. We can do better than jumping to that conclusion. ;P
lynx23 3y ago
And how would PeerTube avoid that, without actively censoring particular content? Ask nicely? Pray? Hope?
- anticensor 3y ago
  There are multiple PeerTube instances. You can pick or start a censorship free one.
immibis 3y ago
That's impossible. When you let people host their own content some Nazis will host Nazi content, and there's nothing you can do about it because you are not the one hosting it. I guess we should ban HTTP so there can't be Nazi websites.
rakoo 3y ago
Peertube is a software, not a service. If you find hateful content, it's not because of peertube, it's because whoever is hosting it (and how you got there)
- mnd999 3y ago
  I’m not gonna argue with that. But I’m not going to use the software unless it hosts something I’m interested in.