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> None of the interventions in western countries has made any impact globally The Montreal Protocol[1] is the first counterexample to this that comes to mind.

> None of the interventions in western countries has made any impact globally The Montreal Protocol[1] is the first counterexample to this that comes to mind. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Protocol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Protocol

somedude895 3y ago
I'd like to add the phase-out of incandescent lightbulbs [0], which in Europe happened when I was younger and didn't care about much of anything, but even so I was always impressed by how a ban on something so widespread happened in a somewhat concerted effort without too much resistance in this part of the world. But then it really had almost only benefits for everyone. (Although I will say the warm light of the old bulbs is still unmatched by LEDs) Did the reduction in fluorocarbons actually impact economies and everyday people in any significant way though? Because CO2 reduction has massive impacts on those, which is why unless all countries are simultaneously willing to incur significant costs on standards of living and economic prosperity, risk stunting developing countries' growth, etc, it simply isn't going to work. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_light_bulbs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_ligh...
- woodruffw 3y ago
  I’m pretty sure it did: CFCs are ridiculously good refrigerants, propellants, etc. Entire supply chains had to be re-rolled around replacements. But the point wasn’t to argue that the scope of the Montreal Protocol is comparable to the scope of the Kyoto Protocol or other international CO2 reduction plans. It was solely to point out that Western countries have contributed meaningfully to global climate protections; shrugging everything off as China’s responsibility is neither sensible nor historically accurate.
- Syonyk 3y ago
  > But then it really had almost only benefits for everyone. (Although I will say the warm light of the old bulbs is still unmatched by LEDs) How's your sleep? The blue coming out even the "warm" LEDs is firmly in the bioactive melatonin suppression regions of the spectrum.
pharmakom 3y ago
Not a carbon things (in fact may have made that worse) but plastic bag minimum charge laws have had a tremendous impact on littering. The usual suspects were all against it at the time but there is no major support for reversing the laws now.
- woodruffw 3y ago
  Yep, this is another good example (and agreed re: ultimate carbon impact).

somedude895 3y ago

I'd like to add the phase-out of incandescent lightbulbs [0], which in Europe happened when I was younger and didn't care about much of anything, but even so I was always impressed by how a ban on something so widespread happened in a somewhat concerted effort without too much resistance in this part of the world. But then it really had almost only benefits for everyone. (Although I will say the warm light of the old bulbs is still unmatched by LEDs) Did the reduction in fluorocarbons actually impact economies and everyday people in any significant way though? Because CO2 reduction has massive impacts on those, which is why unless all countries are simultaneously willing to incur significant costs on standards of living and economic prosperity, risk stunting developing countries' growth, etc, it simply isn't going to work. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_light_bulbs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_ligh...

woodruffw 3y ago
I’m pretty sure it did: CFCs are ridiculously good refrigerants, propellants, etc. Entire supply chains had to be re-rolled around replacements. But the point wasn’t to argue that the scope of the Montreal Protocol is comparable to the scope of the Kyoto Protocol or other international CO2 reduction plans. It was solely to point out that Western countries have contributed meaningfully to global climate protections; shrugging everything off as China’s responsibility is neither sensible nor historically accurate.
Syonyk 3y ago
> But then it really had almost only benefits for everyone. (Although I will say the warm light of the old bulbs is still unmatched by LEDs) How's your sleep? The blue coming out even the "warm" LEDs is firmly in the bioactive melatonin suppression regions of the spectrum.

pharmakom 3y ago

Not a carbon things (in fact may have made that worse) but plastic bag minimum charge laws have had a tremendous impact on littering. The usual suspects were all against it at the time but there is no major support for reversing the laws now.

woodruffw 3y ago
Yep, this is another good example (and agreed re: ultimate carbon impact).