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Singapore has some serious geographic headwinds. The population density of the whole country is higher than the city of San Francisco. The fact that they are no

by scythe 3y ago

Singapore has some serious geographic headwinds. The population density of the whole country is higher than the city of San Francisco. The fact that they are not in constant crisis is already an achievement.

SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
I’m convinced that anyone that points to sg as an example of but an anecdote about itself knows nothing about anything basically. Singapora is amazing to visit but you would never catch me living there. It truly is Disney-like. Between the slave class that comes out at 22:30 and the fact that the country doesn’t exist without China shipping future landfill material around the world it’s just its own thing. I look forward to going back, but it’s not a place that works anywhere except right there and for it’s reasons.
- jhanschoo 3y ago
  > Between the slave class that comes out at 22:30 Correct me if I misunderstand, and for clarification to other responders, but I believe this is referring to the class of foreign laborers (most visible as young men working hard manual labor and women working domestic labor) which Singapore employs on a temporary, long-term basis from less prosperous countries.
  - SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
    The people that come out with pressure washers every single night and spray everything, from my casual investigate were at least mostly born there, some Indonesian and Malay I talked to. The constructions workers, were almost all Indonesian. A lot of Malay working kitchens and manual labor. All of Asia shuts down at 2200 or so; except Borneo oddly. But in Singapore it was crazy just how many people with pressure washers there were, in an every night routine deep cleaning.
    - jhanschoo 3y ago
      Considering the racial makeup for these jobs that you just mentioned, I think you are generalizing quite strongly from your experience. (edit: In my experience those in the food service industry is also Chinese-dominated, e.g. in hawker centers. Note that halal kitchens tend to be Malay-dominated.) I don't think there is anything sinister about one of the most developed economies and cities being a city that doesn't sleep.
inferiorhuman 3y ago
And that's what chafes me about using San Francisco as an example. SF is already far more dense than the other eight Bay Area counties. Look at Brisbane in San Mateo County for instance. A developer wanted to build out some mixed use stuff on a plot of land including about 4,500 homes and the city countered with a plan for zero homes. San Francisco alone cannot remedy a regional housing crisis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisbane_Baylands_development https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisbane_Baylands_development
- lazyasciiart 3y ago
  Good news, the state has required every city in the state to zone for additional housing. That's why Brisbane went ahead and approved a revised plan for ~2000 homes in 2018, complaining that they were only doing so because of state pressure. Nobody is asking San Francisco alone to do anything.
  - inferiorhuman 3y ago
    Nobody is asking San Francisco alone to do anything. Only three Bay Area jurisdictions (of 109) were ready by the Jan 31 deadline this year. Thirty-four failed to even get drafts in by the earlier deadline. By April the number of jurisdictions in compliance rose to… sixteen. And yet, here we are discussing an article about San Francisco while completely ignoring the regional picture. San Francisco has an overall population density of ~17,000 people/sq mi, Brisbane 1,600. Atherton? Under 1,500. So, yes, focusing on San Francisco as HN seems wont to do is utterly ridiculous.
    - smugma 3y ago
      Yes, this is an article about S.F. There are other articles about Woodside trying to say its whole town is Mountain Lion habitat, Los Altos, Palo Alto, etc. Here’s a recent one (their mayor is as bad as the NIMBY SF BoS): https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2023/11/21/high-rise-development-proposed-for-mollie-stones-site-in-palo-alto https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2023/11/21/high-rise-dev...

by scythe 3y ago

SV_BubbleTime 3y ago

I’m convinced that anyone that points to sg as an example of but an anecdote about itself knows nothing about anything basically. Singapora is amazing to visit but you would never catch me living there. It truly is Disney-like. Between the slave class that comes out at 22:30 and the fact that the country doesn’t exist without China shipping future landfill material around the world it’s just its own thing. I look forward to going back, but it’s not a place that works anywhere except right there and for it’s reasons.

jhanschoo 3y ago
> Between the slave class that comes out at 22:30 Correct me if I misunderstand, and for clarification to other responders, but I believe this is referring to the class of foreign laborers (most visible as young men working hard manual labor and women working domestic labor) which Singapore employs on a temporary, long-term basis from less prosperous countries.
- SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
  The people that come out with pressure washers every single night and spray everything, from my casual investigate were at least mostly born there, some Indonesian and Malay I talked to. The constructions workers, were almost all Indonesian. A lot of Malay working kitchens and manual labor. All of Asia shuts down at 2200 or so; except Borneo oddly. But in Singapore it was crazy just how many people with pressure washers there were, in an every night routine deep cleaning.
  - jhanschoo 3y ago
    Considering the racial makeup for these jobs that you just mentioned, I think you are generalizing quite strongly from your experience. (edit: In my experience those in the food service industry is also Chinese-dominated, e.g. in hawker centers. Note that halal kitchens tend to be Malay-dominated.) I don't think there is anything sinister about one of the most developed economies and cities being a city that doesn't sleep.

inferiorhuman 3y ago

And that's what chafes me about using San Francisco as an example. SF is already far more dense than the other eight Bay Area counties. Look at Brisbane in San Mateo County for instance. A developer wanted to build out some mixed use stuff on a plot of land including about 4,500 homes and the city countered with a plan for zero homes. San Francisco alone cannot remedy a regional housing crisis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisbane_Baylands_development https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisbane_Baylands_development

lazyasciiart 3y ago
Good news, the state has required every city in the state to zone for additional housing. That's why Brisbane went ahead and approved a revised plan for ~2000 homes in 2018, complaining that they were only doing so because of state pressure. Nobody is asking San Francisco alone to do anything.
- inferiorhuman 3y ago
  Nobody is asking San Francisco alone to do anything. Only three Bay Area jurisdictions (of 109) were ready by the Jan 31 deadline this year. Thirty-four failed to even get drafts in by the earlier deadline. By April the number of jurisdictions in compliance rose to… sixteen. And yet, here we are discussing an article about San Francisco while completely ignoring the regional picture. San Francisco has an overall population density of ~17,000 people/sq mi, Brisbane 1,600. Atherton? Under 1,500. So, yes, focusing on San Francisco as HN seems wont to do is utterly ridiculous.
  - smugma 3y ago
    Yes, this is an article about S.F. There are other articles about Woodside trying to say its whole town is Mountain Lion habitat, Los Altos, Palo Alto, etc. Here’s a recent one (their mayor is as bad as the NIMBY SF BoS): https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2023/11/21/high-rise-development-proposed-for-mollie-stones-site-in-palo-alto https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2023/11/21/high-rise-dev...