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This whole article should be pulled. It's (possibly intentionally) just inventing lies on key issues. "However, he admitted that he turned off internet access

by maxlin 3y ago

This whole article should be pulled. It's (possibly intentionally) just inventing lies on key issues. "However, he admitted that he turned off internet access from his Starlink satellites during a Ukrainian raid last year on a Russian naval fleet." This is horseshit. The geoblocks those the boats just careened in to were in place for a long time before, and limited to not allow access in Russia due to US sanctions! What Elon was asked to do, was to break the regulations his company is working beneath to create a major new offensive, against the then-current mindset of how US supplied Ukraine in long-term capabilities. Elon said explicitly that if it actually came through the proper channels, and not some random Ukrainian source, he would absolutely have made an exception and opened up those then-closed areas. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKqJ5-kkUGk&t=433s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKqJ5-kkUGk&t=433s

iudqnolq 3y ago
Even Elon's strongest defenders must admit he explicitly says all sorts of things that turn out not to be true. His statements aren't strong evidence either way. There's no clear evidence when the geoblock went into place, we only know the date the Ukrainians first tried to use it. The geoblock included Ukrainian waters, so the sanctions argument can't be true
- maxlin 3y ago
  Just no. There's no reason to believe the situation isn't how it's stated. It's been written about how the Starlink geoblocks are quite notably _on_ the frontlines on ground, sometimes even to the ire of Ukranian operations when they move deeper. Logically it is not just to avoid Russians using it, but also because the Starlink service actually was never given to Ukraine to be used as an offensive weapon, which they continuously of course violated even while being donated terminals & service out of Elon's good will before DoD moved a muscle to help fund them. There's 0% chance for a location in as deep as Crimea that it wouldn't have been blocked at the time. Why keep pushing a wholly inverted view as if the blocks were somehow TURNED ON just as the Ukranian attack ships were moving in? The only thing one can reasonably think of being behind that skew is the persistent misinformation war against Musk as it not just goes against his word but common logic.
  - iudqnolq 3y ago
    I have absolutely no evidence either way, and I don't think you do either. Notably a judge just found Elon has a history of publicly lying in the context of autopilot advertisement. You make a plausible argument, but zero percent chance is a stretch. > It's been written about how the Starlink geoblocks are quite notably _on_ the frontlines on ground, Which are not the internationally recognized borders of Russia and not the sanctions boundary. So that claim by Musk you repeated earlier is clearly false.
    - maxlin 3y ago
      Quit your sealioning and false equivalences. "Notably" I also just had a fart. Bears pretty much the same amount of relevance as a personal attack weaponizing some old FSD case which is pointless on its own, FSD is ahead anyone else in what it does. https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/10/europe/ukraine-starlink-not-active-crimea-intl-hnk/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/10/europe/ukraine-starlink-n... https://babel.ua/en/news/85349-ft-ukrainian-military-complains-about-starlink-disruptions-on-the-front-line-it-complicates-deoccupation#:~:text=Ukrainian%20soldiers%20have%20encountered%20outages,official%20confirmed%20that%20the https://babel.ua/en/news/85349-ft-ukrainian-military-complai... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#Restrictions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_in_the_Russo-Ukrainia... You can easily find more. If you look at a general-use Starlink "geo-hex grid" you can quite easily see how it is capable of being blocked area-wise, and that has been in use since the very beginning, to avoid breaking laws, being used against the terms Ukraine has been given access for, etc. Your second point wouldn't really even require a response. What were you thinking writing that? Like how in the hell does the official border even relate to this considering it's not the actual border the Russians limit themselves to?
      - iudqnolq 3y ago
        You brought in Elon Musk's personal credibility. That makes lies he told in the past relevant to the question of whether we should trust his unverified assertion. FSD being ahead just means his lie was unnecessary. > ? Like how in the hell does the official border even relate to this You said "The geoblocks ... [are] limited to not allow access in Russia due to US sanctions!" US sanctions apply at the official border, so that can't have been the real reason.
- mlindner 3y ago
  We have statements by the Ukrainian director of military intelligence that says that no geoblock was suddenly put into place. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/exclusive-interview-with-ukraines-spy-boss-from-his-dc-hotel-room https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/exclusive-interview-wi...

by maxlin 3y ago

iudqnolq 3y ago

Even Elon's strongest defenders must admit he explicitly says all sorts of things that turn out not to be true. His statements aren't strong evidence either way. There's no clear evidence when the geoblock went into place, we only know the date the Ukrainians first tried to use it. The geoblock included Ukrainian waters, so the sanctions argument can't be true

maxlin 3y ago
Just no. There's no reason to believe the situation isn't how it's stated. It's been written about how the Starlink geoblocks are quite notably _on_ the frontlines on ground, sometimes even to the ire of Ukranian operations when they move deeper. Logically it is not just to avoid Russians using it, but also because the Starlink service actually was never given to Ukraine to be used as an offensive weapon, which they continuously of course violated even while being donated terminals & service out of Elon's good will before DoD moved a muscle to help fund them. There's 0% chance for a location in as deep as Crimea that it wouldn't have been blocked at the time. Why keep pushing a wholly inverted view as if the blocks were somehow TURNED ON just as the Ukranian attack ships were moving in? The only thing one can reasonably think of being behind that skew is the persistent misinformation war against Musk as it not just goes against his word but common logic.
- iudqnolq 3y ago
  I have absolutely no evidence either way, and I don't think you do either. Notably a judge just found Elon has a history of publicly lying in the context of autopilot advertisement. You make a plausible argument, but zero percent chance is a stretch. > It's been written about how the Starlink geoblocks are quite notably _on_ the frontlines on ground, Which are not the internationally recognized borders of Russia and not the sanctions boundary. So that claim by Musk you repeated earlier is clearly false.
  - maxlin 3y ago
    Quit your sealioning and false equivalences. "Notably" I also just had a fart. Bears pretty much the same amount of relevance as a personal attack weaponizing some old FSD case which is pointless on its own, FSD is ahead anyone else in what it does. https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/10/europe/ukraine-starlink-not-active-crimea-intl-hnk/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/10/europe/ukraine-starlink-n... https://babel.ua/en/news/85349-ft-ukrainian-military-complains-about-starlink-disruptions-on-the-front-line-it-complicates-deoccupation#:~:text=Ukrainian%20soldiers%20have%20encountered%20outages,official%20confirmed%20that%20the https://babel.ua/en/news/85349-ft-ukrainian-military-complai... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#Restrictions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_in_the_Russo-Ukrainia... You can easily find more. If you look at a general-use Starlink "geo-hex grid" you can quite easily see how it is capable of being blocked area-wise, and that has been in use since the very beginning, to avoid breaking laws, being used against the terms Ukraine has been given access for, etc. Your second point wouldn't really even require a response. What were you thinking writing that? Like how in the hell does the official border even relate to this considering it's not the actual border the Russians limit themselves to?
    - iudqnolq 3y ago
      You brought in Elon Musk's personal credibility. That makes lies he told in the past relevant to the question of whether we should trust his unverified assertion. FSD being ahead just means his lie was unnecessary. > ? Like how in the hell does the official border even relate to this You said "The geoblocks ... [are] limited to not allow access in Russia due to US sanctions!" US sanctions apply at the official border, so that can't have been the real reason.
mlindner 3y ago
We have statements by the Ukrainian director of military intelligence that says that no geoblock was suddenly put into place. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/exclusive-interview-with-ukraines-spy-boss-from-his-dc-hotel-room https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/exclusive-interview-wi...