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Off-topic but I think it's important: OP, in the article you say you don't want a company to have your private messages, but you are using Telegram? I also use

by andai 3y ago

Off-topic but I think it's important: OP, in the article you say you don't want a company to have your private messages, but you are using Telegram? I also use Telegram, but I am under no illusion of privacy! Except for encrypted chats (which have bad UI and only work on one device) your messages are stored unencrypted on their servers (handed over to authorities, etc.).

konart 3y ago
>you don't want a company to have your private messages But that's not what he says. >I don’t want to use any third-party fine-tuning services He might be okay with a third-party storing his messages but not using them in their models etc.
- furiousteabag 3y ago
  This may sound stupid, but from my perspective renting random VMs on vast.ai is safe in general and might be safer than using traditional cloud providers in particular. Consider this: on your VM a new image starts several times a day, each time with a new volume. It downloads tens of GBs of data and weights for training. Once training is done, everything gets cleaned up and the process starts again for a new tenant. This constant cycle makes it kind of difficult to track and extract any meaningful data from it.
  - behnamoh 3y ago
    vast didn’t work for me despite installing their certificate on macOS.
furiousteabag 3y ago
In IM, there's a balance between total privacy and widespread use. Apps like Signal offer high privacy but have fewer users, while popular ones like WhatsApp are less secure. Telegram lies somewhere in between, offering a level of privacy that most users find comfortable. It's widely used and there haven't been significant incidents of legal issues arising from its messages. Ultimately, it boils down to whom you trust and which app has more of your contacts.
- greiskul 3y ago
  > like WhatsApp are less secure WhatsApp uses end to end encryption by default. In fact, it uses the library that Signal developed. It is much more secure than Telegram, unless proved otherwise (which would need some backdoor in the application code to change its behavior).
  - behnamoh 3y ago
    the fact that the iranian regime blocks telegram, messenger, instagram, signal, etc. but has no problem with whatsapp makes me worried that the app probably cooperates with the regime and complies with their data requests.
  - furiousteabag 3y ago
    It doesn't really matter if the app claims to use E2E when it actually discloses message content [0] [1]. WhatsApp is also filled with backdoors [2]. [0] https://therecord.media/fbi-document-shows-what-data-can-be-obtained-from-encrypted-messaging-apps https://therecord.media/fbi-document-shows-what-data-can-be-... [1] https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/whatsapp-imessage-facebook-apple-fbi-privacy-1261816/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what... [2] https://telegra.ph/Why-Using-WhatsApp-Is-Dangerous-01-30-4 https://telegra.ph/Why-Using-WhatsApp-Is-Dangerous-01-30-4
    - rolisz 3y ago
      0 and 1 don't support your claim that WhatsApp discloses message content. those two links explicitly say WhatsApp doesn't give messages to the FBI.
      - throwaway29812 3y ago
        Also[2] claims backdoors, which is impossible to prove. They could just be bugs that were exploited (and fixed).

by andai 3y ago

konart 3y ago

>you don't want a company to have your private messages But that's not what he says. >I don’t want to use any third-party fine-tuning services He might be okay with a third-party storing his messages but not using them in their models etc.

furiousteabag 3y ago
This may sound stupid, but from my perspective renting random VMs on vast.ai is safe in general and might be safer than using traditional cloud providers in particular. Consider this: on your VM a new image starts several times a day, each time with a new volume. It downloads tens of GBs of data and weights for training. Once training is done, everything gets cleaned up and the process starts again for a new tenant. This constant cycle makes it kind of difficult to track and extract any meaningful data from it.
- behnamoh 3y ago
  vast didn’t work for me despite installing their certificate on macOS.

furiousteabag 3y ago

In IM, there's a balance between total privacy and widespread use. Apps like Signal offer high privacy but have fewer users, while popular ones like WhatsApp are less secure. Telegram lies somewhere in between, offering a level of privacy that most users find comfortable. It's widely used and there haven't been significant incidents of legal issues arising from its messages. Ultimately, it boils down to whom you trust and which app has more of your contacts.

greiskul 3y ago
> like WhatsApp are less secure WhatsApp uses end to end encryption by default. In fact, it uses the library that Signal developed. It is much more secure than Telegram, unless proved otherwise (which would need some backdoor in the application code to change its behavior).
- behnamoh 3y ago
  the fact that the iranian regime blocks telegram, messenger, instagram, signal, etc. but has no problem with whatsapp makes me worried that the app probably cooperates with the regime and complies with their data requests.
- furiousteabag 3y ago
  It doesn't really matter if the app claims to use E2E when it actually discloses message content [0] [1]. WhatsApp is also filled with backdoors [2]. [0] https://therecord.media/fbi-document-shows-what-data-can-be-obtained-from-encrypted-messaging-apps https://therecord.media/fbi-document-shows-what-data-can-be-... [1] https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/whatsapp-imessage-facebook-apple-fbi-privacy-1261816/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what... [2] https://telegra.ph/Why-Using-WhatsApp-Is-Dangerous-01-30-4 https://telegra.ph/Why-Using-WhatsApp-Is-Dangerous-01-30-4
  - rolisz 3y ago
    0 and 1 don't support your claim that WhatsApp discloses message content. those two links explicitly say WhatsApp doesn't give messages to the FBI.
    - throwaway29812 3y ago
      Also[2] claims backdoors, which is impossible to prove. They could just be bugs that were exploited (and fixed).