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Accept! Then the next day send a right to be forgotten request.

by quickthrower2 3y ago

I_am_tiberius 3y ago
If they do it like Paul Graham with Hackernews, then they just remove the link between the person and the data.
- throwboatyface 3y ago
  Using a different identifier isn't sufficient to satisfy a right to be forgotten request. The user's identity could still be inferred from comments, for instance.
  - godelski 3y ago
    So does that mean that if we request Dang will nuke our accounts (honest question, because it's something I've been thinking about. Maybe or maybe not write a Tell HN)
    - andrewmcwatters 3y ago
      He will not, I have asked. Instead, he does what throwboatyface has mentioned. It's bad form.
    - I_am_tiberius 3y ago
      He does not, that's the point. I think YC is not on the legal side regarding this topic.
      - godelski 3y ago
        Maybe it is time to write that manifesto. I love the community but the environment has changed underneath us and faster that I, even someone in ML, expected.
      - tzs 3y ago
        Which law(s) do you think they are not on the legal side of? The most common law people cite for deletion rights is GDPR but I'm not sure GDPR applies. GDPR's territorial scope is defined in Article 3. For controllers or processors not "in the Union", which I think is the case for YC, GDPR applies if the processing activities are related to: "(a) the offering of goods or services, irrespective of whether a payment of the data subject is required, to such data subjects in the Union; or (b) the monitoring of their behaviour as far as their behaviour takes place within the Union." People in the Union can make HN accounts and post, but that doesn't mean that YC is offering goods or services to data subjects in the Union. Recital 23 of GDPR elaborates on offering goods or services (edited to split into two paragraphs to make it easier to read): > In order to determine whether such a controller or processor is offering goods or services to data subjects who are in the Union, it should be ascertained whether it is apparent that the controller or processor envisages offering services to data subjects in one or more Member States in the Union. > Whereas the mere accessibility of the controller’s, processor’s or an intermediary’s website in the Union, of an email address or of other contact details, or the use of a language generally used in the third country where the controller is established, is insufficient to ascertain such intention, factors such as the use of a language or a currency generally used in one or more Member States with the possibility of ordering goods and services in that other language, or the mentioning of customers or users who are in the Union, may make it apparent that the controller envisages offering goods or services to data subjects in the Union. I think YC could make a decent case that they do not envisage offering such services to people in the Union.
        lmm 3y ago
        > > Whereas the mere accessibility of the controller’s, processor’s or an intermediary’s website in the Union, of an email address or of other contact details, or the use of a language generally used in the third country where the controller is established, is insufficient to ascertain such intention, factors such as the use of a language or a currency generally used in one or more Member States with the possibility of ordering goods and services in that other language, or the mentioning of customers or users who are in the Union, may make it apparent that the controller envisages offering goods or services to data subjects in the Union. > I think YC could make a decent case that they do not envisage offering such services to people in the Union. I very much doubt it. YC has an explicit list of European-based companies in their portfolio; they have posted job ads on HN for positions that were based exclusively in EU countries, and continue to do so as far as I can tell. PG is on the record talking about using HN from the UK (no longer part of the EU, but it was at the time).
  - temp112123 3y ago
    As an aside- If you ask nicely they'll edit/remove the PII from the comments.
- hammock 3y ago
  What do you mean by that?
  - I_am_tiberius 3y ago
    If you ask hackernews to delete your comment(s), they refuse to do so. Instead, they just set the username of the comment to deleted.
    - I_Am_Nous 3y ago
      From what I have seen, the servers for hackernews are a bit delicate. At least when OpenAI does something stupid...if our usernames are a primary key ID a single update to remove the username is far less costly than actually dropping all the comments. Or they just want to have an archive for some background monetization scheme, anything is possible!
- junon 3y ago
  This is such a different case I don't even know where to begin. Dang does an incredible job moderating the site.
  - I_am_tiberius 3y ago
    This has nothing to do with Dang. It's not the moderators who decide this - it's company policy, most likely defined by pg.
  - saagarjha 3y ago
    You can do an excellent job moderating this site while also choosing to not do something.

Accept! Then the next day send a right to be forgotten request.

I_am_tiberius 3y ago

If they do it like Paul Graham with Hackernews, then they just remove the link between the person and the data.

throwboatyface 3y ago
Using a different identifier isn't sufficient to satisfy a right to be forgotten request. The user's identity could still be inferred from comments, for instance.
- godelski 3y ago
  So does that mean that if we request Dang will nuke our accounts (honest question, because it's something I've been thinking about. Maybe or maybe not write a Tell HN)
  - andrewmcwatters 3y ago
    He will not, I have asked. Instead, he does what throwboatyface has mentioned. It's bad form.
  - I_am_tiberius 3y ago
    He does not, that's the point. I think YC is not on the legal side regarding this topic.
    - godelski 3y ago
      Maybe it is time to write that manifesto. I love the community but the environment has changed underneath us and faster that I, even someone in ML, expected.
    - tzs 3y ago
      Which law(s) do you think they are not on the legal side of? The most common law people cite for deletion rights is GDPR but I'm not sure GDPR applies. GDPR's territorial scope is defined in Article 3. For controllers or processors not "in the Union", which I think is the case for YC, GDPR applies if the processing activities are related to: "(a) the offering of goods or services, irrespective of whether a payment of the data subject is required, to such data subjects in the Union; or (b) the monitoring of their behaviour as far as their behaviour takes place within the Union." People in the Union can make HN accounts and post, but that doesn't mean that YC is offering goods or services to data subjects in the Union. Recital 23 of GDPR elaborates on offering goods or services (edited to split into two paragraphs to make it easier to read): > In order to determine whether such a controller or processor is offering goods or services to data subjects who are in the Union, it should be ascertained whether it is apparent that the controller or processor envisages offering services to data subjects in one or more Member States in the Union. > Whereas the mere accessibility of the controller’s, processor’s or an intermediary’s website in the Union, of an email address or of other contact details, or the use of a language generally used in the third country where the controller is established, is insufficient to ascertain such intention, factors such as the use of a language or a currency generally used in one or more Member States with the possibility of ordering goods and services in that other language, or the mentioning of customers or users who are in the Union, may make it apparent that the controller envisages offering goods or services to data subjects in the Union. I think YC could make a decent case that they do not envisage offering such services to people in the Union.
      - lmm 3y ago
        > > Whereas the mere accessibility of the controller’s, processor’s or an intermediary’s website in the Union, of an email address or of other contact details, or the use of a language generally used in the third country where the controller is established, is insufficient to ascertain such intention, factors such as the use of a language or a currency generally used in one or more Member States with the possibility of ordering goods and services in that other language, or the mentioning of customers or users who are in the Union, may make it apparent that the controller envisages offering goods or services to data subjects in the Union. > I think YC could make a decent case that they do not envisage offering such services to people in the Union. I very much doubt it. YC has an explicit list of European-based companies in their portfolio; they have posted job ads on HN for positions that were based exclusively in EU countries, and continue to do so as far as I can tell. PG is on the record talking about using HN from the UK (no longer part of the EU, but it was at the time).
- temp112123 3y ago
  As an aside- If you ask nicely they'll edit/remove the PII from the comments.
hammock 3y ago
What do you mean by that?
- I_am_tiberius 3y ago
  If you ask hackernews to delete your comment(s), they refuse to do so. Instead, they just set the username of the comment to deleted.
  - I_Am_Nous 3y ago
    From what I have seen, the servers for hackernews are a bit delicate. At least when OpenAI does something stupid...if our usernames are a primary key ID a single update to remove the username is far less costly than actually dropping all the comments. Or they just want to have an archive for some background monetization scheme, anything is possible!
junon 3y ago
This is such a different case I don't even know where to begin. Dang does an incredible job moderating the site.
- I_am_tiberius 3y ago
  This has nothing to do with Dang. It's not the moderators who decide this - it's company policy, most likely defined by pg.
- saagarjha 3y ago
  You can do an excellent job moderating this site while also choosing to not do something.